3 ms·

I find it really interesting that this concept took hold so strongly in people's imaginations. I think because it's just on the border of plausibility and seems

by anitil 2y ago

I find it really interesting that this concept took hold so strongly in people's imaginations. I think because it's just on the border of plausibility and seems somehow to be hidden knowledge. It reminds me of Dan Luu's idea of 'Cocktail Party Ideas' [0] Edit: Of course I appreciate someone putting the idea to the test! [0] https://danluu.com/cocktail-ideas/ https://danluu.com/cocktail-ideas/

PhasmaFelis 2y ago
If you're saying that this proves endurance hunting is a myth, you should know that there are real live people who practice it today, and you can find at least one of them on YouTube. This comment discusses what some of those people do differently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41241490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41241490
- rramadass 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41242321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41242321
- anitil 2y ago
  I'm not saying it's a myth, I'd say my position is - 1. It's plausible that some humans somewhere might have used it, however 2. It's unlikely any group of humans used this for a meaningful amount of their caloric intake The point of my previous comment was that I find it interesting that it seems to have taken an oversized mindshare in people's beliefs around the evolution of humans. I'm interested in why that might be. I suspect because it has a slightly unexpected twist that while we're not fantastic at running, we are (allegedly) good at long-distance running.
  - PhasmaFelis 2y ago
    > we are (allegedly) good at long-distance running. Whatever the evolutionary reasons for it, I don't think we can reasonably dispute that humans are pretty good at long-distance running.
    - anitil 2y ago
      You're right, I shouldn't have qualified it
rramadass 2y ago
I never believed this "Humans are the best endurance hunters" story. It seemed just too pat with no data to back it up but just suppositions/rumours/stories to bolster it during retellings. Humans have always hunted using the Stalk, Ambush, Injure and Track (with luck involved) process. See The Persistent Myth of Persistence Hunting - https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hunting/ https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hu... Wikipedia's Endurance running hypothesis entry points to criticisms under the "Academic Discourse" section - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_running_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_running_hypothesis
- chrisco255 2y ago
  How do you explain video evidence of it in modern times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
  - rramadass 2y ago
    That is not evidence (in the scientific sense) but a narrative created for TV from many viewpoints. Whether this scene omitted crucial factors (eg. replenishing/resupplying the hunters, whether the animal was injured, whether this was a one-off/outlier/staged etc.) as has been proven in similar other videos/movies (see for example https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-long-running-myth/ https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-long-running-myth/ and https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hunting https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hun...) is not known. There are just too many questions to take this at face value.
    - chrisco255 2y ago
      The video showcases the San people. They have hunted like this for countless generations. You can even see an 1892 illustration of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_people#/media/File:Wandering_hunters_(Masarwa_bushmen),_North_Kalahari_Desert.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_people#/media/File:Wanderi... This paper quotes at least 9 documented Kalahari hunts: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248419300077 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... Another: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260135266_Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter-Gatherers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260135266_Persisten... Here's an Aussie using the technique on feral goats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6aqcJH7Uw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6aqcJH7Uw

by anitil 2y ago

PhasmaFelis 2y ago

If you're saying that this proves endurance hunting is a myth, you should know that there are real live people who practice it today, and you can find at least one of them on YouTube. This comment discusses what some of those people do differently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41241490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41241490

rramadass 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41242321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41242321
anitil 2y ago
I'm not saying it's a myth, I'd say my position is - 1. It's plausible that some humans somewhere might have used it, however 2. It's unlikely any group of humans used this for a meaningful amount of their caloric intake The point of my previous comment was that I find it interesting that it seems to have taken an oversized mindshare in people's beliefs around the evolution of humans. I'm interested in why that might be. I suspect because it has a slightly unexpected twist that while we're not fantastic at running, we are (allegedly) good at long-distance running.
- PhasmaFelis 2y ago
  > we are (allegedly) good at long-distance running. Whatever the evolutionary reasons for it, I don't think we can reasonably dispute that humans are pretty good at long-distance running.
  - anitil 2y ago
    You're right, I shouldn't have qualified it

rramadass 2y ago

I never believed this "Humans are the best endurance hunters" story. It seemed just too pat with no data to back it up but just suppositions/rumours/stories to bolster it during retellings. Humans have always hunted using the Stalk, Ambush, Injure and Track (with luck involved) process. See The Persistent Myth of Persistence Hunting - https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hunting/ https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hu... Wikipedia's Endurance running hypothesis entry points to criticisms under the "Academic Discourse" section - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_running_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_running_hypothesis

chrisco255 2y ago
How do you explain video evidence of it in modern times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
- rramadass 2y ago
  That is not evidence (in the scientific sense) but a narrative created for TV from many viewpoints. Whether this scene omitted crucial factors (eg. replenishing/resupplying the hunters, whether the animal was injured, whether this was a one-off/outlier/staged etc.) as has been proven in similar other videos/movies (see for example https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-long-running-myth/ https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/a-long-running-myth/ and https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hunting https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hun...) is not known. There are just too many questions to take this at face value.
  - chrisco255 2y ago
    The video showcases the San people. They have hunted like this for countless generations. You can even see an 1892 illustration of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_people#/media/File:Wandering_hunters_(Masarwa_bushmen),_North_Kalahari_Desert.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_people#/media/File:Wanderi... This paper quotes at least 9 documented Kalahari hunts: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248419300077 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... Another: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260135266_Persistence_Hunting_by_Modern_Hunter-Gatherers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260135266_Persisten... Here's an Aussie using the technique on feral goats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6aqcJH7Uw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6aqcJH7Uw