3 ms·

Do the cars actually listen for the honks?

RIMR 2y ago
I am sure they have some sort of honk detection, but I think the key issue here is that they don't recognize other Waymo cars, and honk at each other any time they get into a standoff, which is common in their parking lots.
Nextgrid 2y ago
Pretty sure the honks are meant at human drivers. I guess what must be happening is that when navigating a parking lot and seeing another car that it thinks may be in its way or not aware of it, it honks to make its presence known. This is generally a good idea when interacting with human drivers and in the outside world where the probability of encountering another self-driving car in such a situation is extremely low. It only breaks in this specific edge-case where there's seemingly nothing but self-driving cars in the entire lot. It's actually quite a difficult problem to solve. The honk reflex is there for safety - if something that might be a car (based on limited/occluded camera & sensor data) you want to honk just in case, as early as possible. Waiting for the presumed car to get into better view so you can identify it is dangerous as it will delay the honk reaction to a time where it might be too late. The only way I see to solve that is that all the cars need to communicate and be aware of each other in 3D space, and then be able to predict their upcoming position in the visual/radar field very precisely, so that as soon as it comes into view you need to be able to confidently say that this is indeed another Waymo car and thus inhibit the (now unnecessary) honk reaction. This needs to be very precise as you wouldn't want to accidentally inhibit it in case a human driver (or just cyclist/pedestrian) also happens to be there and broadly matches the location/angle you expect your other Waymo car to be at.
- johntb86 2y ago
  From looking at a longer video, it seems like a car honks when the car in front of it backs up.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >The only way I see to solve that is that all the cars need to communicate and be aware of each other in 3D space, and then be able to predict their upcoming position in the visual/radar field very precisely, so that as soon as it comes into view you need to be able to confidently say that this is indeed another Waymo car and thus inhibit the (now unnecessary) honk reaction. I honestly can't believe that's not already part of the feature set.
- drozycki 2y ago
  Just geofence their lots and disable the horn
- blendo 2y ago
  If they had ultra-wideband transceivers on each vehicle, wouldn’t that let them determine direction and location down to maybe (i’m guessing) 10 cm? If all cars could detect these kinds of beacons, i’d want a transmitter on my bicycle. Or, carry one (my iPhone?) as a pedestrian. DSRC and cellular-V2V i think solve similar problems, but those two require the more inaccurate GPS, i think,.
- lubujackson 2y ago
  Easier solution: don't drive in a way that would make you honk if you were the other car. Yes, that might make them overly cautious... let's start there.

RIMR 2y ago

I am sure they have some sort of honk detection, but I think the key issue here is that they don't recognize other Waymo cars, and honk at each other any time they get into a standoff, which is common in their parking lots.

Nextgrid 2y ago

Pretty sure the honks are meant at human drivers. I guess what must be happening is that when navigating a parking lot and seeing another car that it thinks may be in its way or not aware of it, it honks to make its presence known. This is generally a good idea when interacting with human drivers and in the outside world where the probability of encountering another self-driving car in such a situation is extremely low. It only breaks in this specific edge-case where there's seemingly nothing but self-driving cars in the entire lot. It's actually quite a difficult problem to solve. The honk reflex is there for safety - if something that might be a car (based on limited/occluded camera & sensor data) you want to honk just in case, as early as possible. Waiting for the presumed car to get into better view so you can identify it is dangerous as it will delay the honk reaction to a time where it might be too late. The only way I see to solve that is that all the cars need to communicate and be aware of each other in 3D space, and then be able to predict their upcoming position in the visual/radar field very precisely, so that as soon as it comes into view you need to be able to confidently say that this is indeed another Waymo car and thus inhibit the (now unnecessary) honk reaction. This needs to be very precise as you wouldn't want to accidentally inhibit it in case a human driver (or just cyclist/pedestrian) also happens to be there and broadly matches the location/angle you expect your other Waymo car to be at.

johntb86 2y ago
From looking at a longer video, it seems like a car honks when the car in front of it backs up.
Suppafly 2y ago
>The only way I see to solve that is that all the cars need to communicate and be aware of each other in 3D space, and then be able to predict their upcoming position in the visual/radar field very precisely, so that as soon as it comes into view you need to be able to confidently say that this is indeed another Waymo car and thus inhibit the (now unnecessary) honk reaction. I honestly can't believe that's not already part of the feature set.
drozycki 2y ago
Just geofence their lots and disable the horn
blendo 2y ago
If they had ultra-wideband transceivers on each vehicle, wouldn’t that let them determine direction and location down to maybe (i’m guessing) 10 cm? If all cars could detect these kinds of beacons, i’d want a transmitter on my bicycle. Or, carry one (my iPhone?) as a pedestrian. DSRC and cellular-V2V i think solve similar problems, but those two require the more inaccurate GPS, i think,.
lubujackson 2y ago
Easier solution: don't drive in a way that would make you honk if you were the other car. Yes, that might make them overly cautious... let's start there.