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I don't think there is such a thing as truth; at least not for anything that matters to human meaning. The truth is we're just apes living on a planet that we'r

I don't think there is such a thing as truth; at least not for anything that matters to human meaning. The truth is we're just apes living on a planet that we're unable to stop ourselves from destroying; a tiny, ultimately meaningless rock that will be gone one day in a universe that won't even notice, let alone care. That truth is very hard to accept (I never really have) and so we create other stories to give us meaning, but these stories are too arbitrary and subjective for us to collectively agree upon.

hoorayimhelping 2y ago
>I don't think there is such a thing as truth This is a self-defeating statement. It's false on its face. If there is no such thing as truth, then this statement can't be true because it would mean there is at least one truth.
- gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
  Not really. It’s a hyperbolic statement. It needs to be understood as such. Normally this falls into the realm of moral truth. Or perhaps in a broader sense existential truth. For example: rape is wrong is not an absolute truth. It’s just like your opinion man. In an entirely materialistic system morality is not universal. It merely the taste of whatever society wants at a time. Morality is ultimately might makes right. If you can enforce your morality through force, your morality wins. If the pro-rape camp could enforce their view, within a few generations we’d all say that the anti-rape camp was on the wrong side of history.
  - throaway814 2y ago
    [flagged]
- throaway814 2y ago
  [flagged]
dgfitz 2y ago
> I don't think there is such a thing as truth; at least not for anything that matters to human meaning. 1+1 = 2, the earth is ~80% water, water freezes at 0degC. What to you mean there aren't truths? Do you mean people form opinions that are wrong? Sure. After sitting back at looking at it, it seems like the big problem is: there are small circles of power that make decisions for the rest of their population under the guise of "best interest of the people" when in reality we all know this isn't true. So these small groups make the little people distracted with things that are very hot-button topics that affect a very small majority of people, by making appeals to emotion on both sides. The small folks eat this up, rip a huge divide, and the small circle people sit back and laugh.
- pchristensen 2y ago
  Engineers have a hard time with this, because we work in a very 1-0, falsifiable world. When people talk about "truth" with regard to society, government, politics, culture, etc, they're talking about "the story". A story is something that shortcuts discussion, an agreement that two parties don't need to litigate the foundation of. Take the statement "Joe Biden is president of the USA." Many people accept that as truth not requiring further discussion. Many people do not accept that for a variety of reasons. If you're going to make that statement, you need to be prepared that some percentage of those hearing it will object. There are people that will object to "The earth is round." So "post-truth" means that there's not a stable foundation of generally agreed upon facts. The least common denominator for discussion and agreement is smaller.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    > Many people do not accept that for a variety of reasons. That doesn't mean it isn't true about Biden being president. It is a fact, Biden is the sworn-in president of the United States. The part where people don't believe this doesn't make the world post-truth, it just makes some people wrong. I don't care how hard someone believes Biden isn't president, he is. he was sworn in, this is a fact, not an opinion, not a story, not up for debate. The dude was sworn in as the president, he is the president. Was he elected fairly? I think so, some don't. Debate that, sure. If two people on the opposite of that debate try and convince the other, it won't happen. That isn't post-truth, at all. Truth still exists. People don't look for it. I posted this the other day as an example: My Brother-in-Law said recently "The NFL has declining viewership and is losing interest because of all the different platforms they stream to." Which I'm sure he heard/read somewhere, and knowing the fella, had a political slant towards what he was saying. I do not know what the slant was, but I DO know he was wrong. The NFL had one of the best ratings years ever in the 23-24 season. My brother in law is just spouting nonsense. He didn't try and find the truth. We argued for 3 minutes, I pulled up the numbers, and he was wrong. That isn't post-truth, it is willful ignorance, choosing to believe a false narrative because it aligns with core values.
apantel 2y ago
Nothing you said is truth. Those are just your own blind beliefs. How do you know the universe is meaningless? Maybe it’s a simulation being run for a purpose, and the beings running it care about the outcome. You’re just spouting YOUR truth, which is not truth at all.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  > Maybe it’s a simulation being run for a purpose, and the beings running it care about the outcome. This sounds an awful lot like a higher being who sits in judgement of their creation; and something that humanity seems to reach for very quickly. I was taught something similar as a child, but lost the belief when I was still quite young. I'd love to believe in a higher power or purpose because nihilism is quite a terrible experience. I often wonder if I'm just wired differently so in some way unable to believe things as others are or if a lifetime of chronic pain has revealed things to me that most people do not learn until they are older.
  - dasil003 2y ago
    It’s hubris to think we can know anything about the reason for the existence of the universe. But just because we can’t know doesn’t mean there is no reason, that line of thinking is just hubris in the other direction.
    - throaway814 2y ago
      [flagged]
eltoxo 2y ago
The truth is that we are very limited apes that are highly prone to self delusion and believing nonsense, trying to understand an impossibly complex world. At the aggregate we seem to be making progress while at the individual level humanity always seems doomed. It seems a constant that the individual wants to pretend they live in the end times because at least then your time on this rock was a little bit special.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I’m more of what might be called “The Last Man” (as I’ve said elsewhere, I’m not really enough of a Nietzsche reader to really throw out his terms but sometimes they do seem apropos). I’ve never wanted to be special; quite the opposite, I just want to be left alone to my TV, video games, and garden. Safety and comfort are what little condolence I take against the nihilism of existence. And it has become quite clear to me that climate change threatens that. What is strange to me is how many people believe that perturbing the Earth’s carbon cycle could not possibly have dire consequences for the Earth when not only has it happened before in the Earth’s history, we have models showing how bad it could possibly be and are already seeing the effects unfold. My suspicion is that I lack a lot of the denial mechanisms that get most people through the day and that they also prevent people from thinking that things can actually go wrong. Take it from someone who has seen quite a lot go wrong - they can.

hoorayimhelping 2y ago

>I don't think there is such a thing as truth This is a self-defeating statement. It's false on its face. If there is no such thing as truth, then this statement can't be true because it would mean there is at least one truth.

gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
Not really. It’s a hyperbolic statement. It needs to be understood as such. Normally this falls into the realm of moral truth. Or perhaps in a broader sense existential truth. For example: rape is wrong is not an absolute truth. It’s just like your opinion man. In an entirely materialistic system morality is not universal. It merely the taste of whatever society wants at a time. Morality is ultimately might makes right. If you can enforce your morality through force, your morality wins. If the pro-rape camp could enforce their view, within a few generations we’d all say that the anti-rape camp was on the wrong side of history.
- throaway814 2y ago
  [flagged]
throaway814 2y ago
[flagged]

dgfitz 2y ago

> I don't think there is such a thing as truth; at least not for anything that matters to human meaning. 1+1 = 2, the earth is ~80% water, water freezes at 0degC. What to you mean there aren't truths? Do you mean people form opinions that are wrong? Sure. After sitting back at looking at it, it seems like the big problem is: there are small circles of power that make decisions for the rest of their population under the guise of "best interest of the people" when in reality we all know this isn't true. So these small groups make the little people distracted with things that are very hot-button topics that affect a very small majority of people, by making appeals to emotion on both sides. The small folks eat this up, rip a huge divide, and the small circle people sit back and laugh.

pchristensen 2y ago
Engineers have a hard time with this, because we work in a very 1-0, falsifiable world. When people talk about "truth" with regard to society, government, politics, culture, etc, they're talking about "the story". A story is something that shortcuts discussion, an agreement that two parties don't need to litigate the foundation of. Take the statement "Joe Biden is president of the USA." Many people accept that as truth not requiring further discussion. Many people do not accept that for a variety of reasons. If you're going to make that statement, you need to be prepared that some percentage of those hearing it will object. There are people that will object to "The earth is round." So "post-truth" means that there's not a stable foundation of generally agreed upon facts. The least common denominator for discussion and agreement is smaller.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  > Many people do not accept that for a variety of reasons. That doesn't mean it isn't true about Biden being president. It is a fact, Biden is the sworn-in president of the United States. The part where people don't believe this doesn't make the world post-truth, it just makes some people wrong. I don't care how hard someone believes Biden isn't president, he is. he was sworn in, this is a fact, not an opinion, not a story, not up for debate. The dude was sworn in as the president, he is the president. Was he elected fairly? I think so, some don't. Debate that, sure. If two people on the opposite of that debate try and convince the other, it won't happen. That isn't post-truth, at all. Truth still exists. People don't look for it. I posted this the other day as an example: My Brother-in-Law said recently "The NFL has declining viewership and is losing interest because of all the different platforms they stream to." Which I'm sure he heard/read somewhere, and knowing the fella, had a political slant towards what he was saying. I do not know what the slant was, but I DO know he was wrong. The NFL had one of the best ratings years ever in the 23-24 season. My brother in law is just spouting nonsense. He didn't try and find the truth. We argued for 3 minutes, I pulled up the numbers, and he was wrong. That isn't post-truth, it is willful ignorance, choosing to believe a false narrative because it aligns with core values.

apantel 2y ago

Nothing you said is truth. Those are just your own blind beliefs. How do you know the universe is meaningless? Maybe it’s a simulation being run for a purpose, and the beings running it care about the outcome. You’re just spouting YOUR truth, which is not truth at all.

silverquiet 2y ago
> Maybe it’s a simulation being run for a purpose, and the beings running it care about the outcome. This sounds an awful lot like a higher being who sits in judgement of their creation; and something that humanity seems to reach for very quickly. I was taught something similar as a child, but lost the belief when I was still quite young. I'd love to believe in a higher power or purpose because nihilism is quite a terrible experience. I often wonder if I'm just wired differently so in some way unable to believe things as others are or if a lifetime of chronic pain has revealed things to me that most people do not learn until they are older.
- dasil003 2y ago
  It’s hubris to think we can know anything about the reason for the existence of the universe. But just because we can’t know doesn’t mean there is no reason, that line of thinking is just hubris in the other direction.
  - throaway814 2y ago
    [flagged]

eltoxo 2y ago

The truth is that we are very limited apes that are highly prone to self delusion and believing nonsense, trying to understand an impossibly complex world. At the aggregate we seem to be making progress while at the individual level humanity always seems doomed. It seems a constant that the individual wants to pretend they live in the end times because at least then your time on this rock was a little bit special.

silverquiet 2y ago
I’m more of what might be called “The Last Man” (as I’ve said elsewhere, I’m not really enough of a Nietzsche reader to really throw out his terms but sometimes they do seem apropos). I’ve never wanted to be special; quite the opposite, I just want to be left alone to my TV, video games, and garden. Safety and comfort are what little condolence I take against the nihilism of existence. And it has become quite clear to me that climate change threatens that. What is strange to me is how many people believe that perturbing the Earth’s carbon cycle could not possibly have dire consequences for the Earth when not only has it happened before in the Earth’s history, we have models showing how bad it could possibly be and are already seeing the effects unfold. My suspicion is that I lack a lot of the denial mechanisms that get most people through the day and that they also prevent people from thinking that things can actually go wrong. Take it from someone who has seen quite a lot go wrong - they can.