5 ms·

Stray gusts of wind, slight irregularities in the track's surface, other tiny inequalities between lanes or starting positions are probably going to nudge runne

by beloch 2y ago

Stray gusts of wind, slight irregularities in the track's surface, other tiny inequalities between lanes or starting positions are probably going to nudge runner performance enough to overwhelm the precision of even a fairly unremarkable finish camera. If fairness were the primary consideration, then they would use any old junk camera and be generous in calling ties. This kind of theatrical accuracy is there purely so that Omega can advertise.

sfn42 2y ago
I agree with your factual claims, many things can influence the result. But I don't quite see how using less accurate measuring tools makes sense. At the end of the day getting across the finish line first is the only thing that really matters. Seems to me that more accuracy can only be a good thing
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  Do they go back to ensure everyones foot is on the block to a precise mm, or to ensure that the runner didn't flinch or move their foot from the block 1/1000 of a second early before the sound hit their ears, taking into account the distance from each runner's ear to the closest speaker playing the starting sound? The extreme level of precision, I suspect, is not the same at the finish and the start.
  - biggestdummy 2y ago
    They do, in fact, have humans who check to make sure that everyone starts behind the starting line. And both humans and computers which check to make sure that nobody starts early. Two notes on "starts early." One - start is any visible bodily movement, not the crossing of the start-line. So any flinch, whether in the direction of the start-line or not, is a false start. Two - if you start inside of 0.1 seconds of the start-gun, it is declared a false start, since the assumption is that no human can react faster than that. The precision at the start is quite high!
snowwrestler 2y ago
One could say that 1st place only won because some random factor favored him. But one could just as easily say that 2nd place was only so close because some random factor favored him. If there is no way to measure or control a factor, there is no way to know whom it favored. So race organizers try to make things as fair as possible, but everything beyond that is just “part of the game.” The athletes accept that, and spectators should as well.
- ibash 2y ago
  No. From now on all competition will only be determined by the outcome of a Monte Carlo simulation. We don’t need to run the race.
paulcole 2y ago
> If fairness were the primary consideration It is not. They do a great job of getting people to think that it is, however.
jvanderbot 2y ago
The sprinters have speakers near their starting blocks that broadcast the start noise. If this seems excessive, consider that a starting pistol noise takes longer to reach the outer lanes from the inner ones than was the margin between first and second place in this race.
- layer8 2y ago
  This just illustrates that this specific competition has become meaningless. It might measure their auditory reaction time more than their sprinting speed.
  - iambateman 2y ago
    Does it? I join millions of other people who find it enjoyable to watch. By that measure it's meaningful. In fact, more meaningful than the _vast_ majority of Olympic events which have less parity and orders of magnitude fewer viewers.
    - layer8 2y ago
      We are using “meaningful” in two different senses. Of course, what people find meaning in isn’t necessarily rational.
      - haswell 2y ago
        In what way is someone who still finds this event meaningful engaging in irrationality? Every competition has factors preceding and during the moments of measured performance that are like this. You could also say that a runner’s performance is about their ability to train consistently, apply self discipline to their daily lives, perform under pressure, etc. It seems odd to me that in the sum of all moments leading up to the start of a race, somehow reaction time would no longer be relevant. If a runner gets distracted by the crowd, that’s just as impactful to the race but has nothing to do with their potential speed. The race is a measurement of all factors - mental and physical - and all participants are measured the same way.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dehrmann 2y ago
I like how swimming has relatively coarse time because of the tolerances when building the pool.

by beloch 2y ago

sfn42 2y ago

I agree with your factual claims, many things can influence the result. But I don't quite see how using less accurate measuring tools makes sense. At the end of the day getting across the finish line first is the only thing that really matters. Seems to me that more accuracy can only be a good thing

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
unethical_ban 2y ago
Do they go back to ensure everyones foot is on the block to a precise mm, or to ensure that the runner didn't flinch or move their foot from the block 1/1000 of a second early before the sound hit their ears, taking into account the distance from each runner's ear to the closest speaker playing the starting sound? The extreme level of precision, I suspect, is not the same at the finish and the start.
- biggestdummy 2y ago
  They do, in fact, have humans who check to make sure that everyone starts behind the starting line. And both humans and computers which check to make sure that nobody starts early. Two notes on "starts early." One - start is any visible bodily movement, not the crossing of the start-line. So any flinch, whether in the direction of the start-line or not, is a false start. Two - if you start inside of 0.1 seconds of the start-gun, it is declared a false start, since the assumption is that no human can react faster than that. The precision at the start is quite high!

snowwrestler 2y ago

One could say that 1st place only won because some random factor favored him. But one could just as easily say that 2nd place was only so close because some random factor favored him. If there is no way to measure or control a factor, there is no way to know whom it favored. So race organizers try to make things as fair as possible, but everything beyond that is just “part of the game.” The athletes accept that, and spectators should as well.

ibash 2y ago
No. From now on all competition will only be determined by the outcome of a Monte Carlo simulation. We don’t need to run the race.

paulcole 2y ago

> If fairness were the primary consideration It is not. They do a great job of getting people to think that it is, however.

jvanderbot 2y ago

The sprinters have speakers near their starting blocks that broadcast the start noise. If this seems excessive, consider that a starting pistol noise takes longer to reach the outer lanes from the inner ones than was the margin between first and second place in this race.

layer8 2y ago
This just illustrates that this specific competition has become meaningless. It might measure their auditory reaction time more than their sprinting speed.
- iambateman 2y ago
  Does it? I join millions of other people who find it enjoyable to watch. By that measure it's meaningful. In fact, more meaningful than the _vast_ majority of Olympic events which have less parity and orders of magnitude fewer viewers.
  - layer8 2y ago
    We are using “meaningful” in two different senses. Of course, what people find meaning in isn’t necessarily rational.
    - haswell 2y ago
      In what way is someone who still finds this event meaningful engaging in irrationality? Every competition has factors preceding and during the moments of measured performance that are like this. You could also say that a runner’s performance is about their ability to train consistently, apply self discipline to their daily lives, perform under pressure, etc. It seems odd to me that in the sum of all moments leading up to the start of a race, somehow reaction time would no longer be relevant. If a runner gets distracted by the crowd, that’s just as impactful to the race but has nothing to do with their potential speed. The race is a measurement of all factors - mental and physical - and all participants are measured the same way.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dehrmann 2y ago

I like how swimming has relatively coarse time because of the tolerances when building the pool.