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The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search ther

The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.

jliptzin 2y ago
Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser
- inanutshellus 2y ago
  It wouldnt matter that your app is just a web view of your website, as accepting payments that bypass the ios payment system gets your app banned. ... Thus the conversation in the first place.
  - BobaFloutist 2y ago
    But browsers, which are apps, can accept payments that bypass the ios payment system, no?
    - lenkite 2y ago
      Won't be surprised if Apple blocks this too or redirects URLs to open the app in the app store.
- espadrine 2y ago
  That is disallowed by section 4.2 of the App Review Guidelines[0]: > Your app should include features, content, and UI that elevate it beyond a repackaged website. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
  - user_7832 2y ago
    The irony of so many apps being electron wrappers is apparently lost on Apple. I'll just be happy if Teams could stop eating battery for once. Though honestly jokes aside, this rule still doesn't make a lot of sense (to me). Webapps are capable enough. What does Uber's app, or the Google app do, that's different from their websites? Heck, even Apple's own notes app is simple enough that I'm fairly sure you could make a webapp out of it. I think tasks.org already has such a webapp/website.
    - Andrex 2y ago
      Few iOS apps are based on electron, I would think.
      - oyashirochama 2y ago
        Discord joins the conversation.
  - fluidcruft 2y ago
    Then make an app whose sole purpose is to display bookmarks as icons on a scrollable and searchable canvas.
carlosjobim 2y ago
For good reason. The web is a cess pit which people will avoid if they can.
- KingMob 2y ago
  A term which in no way also applies to apps, that have vastly more ability to spy on you, and DMCA protections against interop and modification. /s At least the spying is efficient, I guess.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    The app store is also ridden with scams and crap. But the web is a horrible experience for normal people compared to apps, which the down voters here don't seem to understand, because they have adblockers etc.
    - troyvit 2y ago
      Normal people need ad blockers about the same way they need clean water. I wish advertising was a viable revenue model for publishers, but it has been abused by large actors for so many years that large US government entities like the FBI recommend an ad blocker[1], and even the FTC lightly suggests it [2]. [1] https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221 https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221 [2] https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-websites-and-apps-collect-and-use-your-information https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-websites-and-apps-coll...
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        The advertising industry is a malware services market.
    - KingMob 2y ago
      Many apps are also ridden with ads, can collect way more personal info than a web site, and unlike sites, it's way harder to block their ads. (E.g., installing a PiHole on your network vs installing a browser extension.) Altering an app is a DMCA violation of whatever cryptography they use; altering a web site is your legal right via extensions/userscripts.
Andrex 2y ago
"The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is." I'd love to know where this idea started, because I'm not convinced it's actually based on any kind of real data. If it is, I don't think it's accurate for the past 5+ years. Knowledge of the web is probably flat. And apps and smartphones have peaked in the West. Those are my anecdotes to add, since that seems to be what we're doing. This line of thinking could lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy the more it's spread, too.
- evilduck 2y ago
  The idea that Safari is lagging behind is nonsense too. People live in their own fantasies. Press someone to explain what bugs or missing features they're specifically saying are holding the web back and you will probably get a very short list of nonstandard or experimental APIs like WebUSB.
  - pton_xd 2y ago
    Here's a site that lists a few [0]. I will say that if you've spent any time trying to develop a web-based app it becomes painfully obvious that Apple is doing the absolute bare minimum to support the browser on iOS. PWAs are barely functional. [0] https://ios404.com https://ios404.com
    - evilduck 2y ago
      Played your role, as expected. No actual problems described and a link to a list of mostly "draft" and "candidate" items. Every fucking time.
- espadrine 2y ago
  Do people search for applications in the App Store or on the Web? This 2023 study[0] indicates 48% of people discover apps by browsing through the App Stores, compared to 21% that discover them through Web search engines. Is this a trend? This 2015 study[1] indicates 40% of people browse for apps in the App Stores, compared to 25% (“1 in 4”) that discover them through Web search engines. Does this apply to Patreon? The CEO of Patreon had this to say:[2] > iOS is actually now the most used platform for communities on Patreon. [0]: https://www.semrush.com/blog/app-store-optimization/ https://www.semrush.com/blog/app-store-optimization/ [1]: https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/app-and-mobile/mobile-app-marketing-insights/ https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/app-and... [2]: https://youtu.be/L-LoTH3PzgM?si=F1xraTOFxx8SJN0C&t=61 https://youtu.be/L-LoTH3PzgM?si=F1xraTOFxx8SJN0C&t=61

The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.

jliptzin 2y ago

Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser

inanutshellus 2y ago
It wouldnt matter that your app is just a web view of your website, as accepting payments that bypass the ios payment system gets your app banned. ... Thus the conversation in the first place.
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  But browsers, which are apps, can accept payments that bypass the ios payment system, no?
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Won't be surprised if Apple blocks this too or redirects URLs to open the app in the app store.
espadrine 2y ago
That is disallowed by section 4.2 of the App Review Guidelines[0]: > Your app should include features, content, and UI that elevate it beyond a repackaged website. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
- user_7832 2y ago
  The irony of so many apps being electron wrappers is apparently lost on Apple. I'll just be happy if Teams could stop eating battery for once. Though honestly jokes aside, this rule still doesn't make a lot of sense (to me). Webapps are capable enough. What does Uber's app, or the Google app do, that's different from their websites? Heck, even Apple's own notes app is simple enough that I'm fairly sure you could make a webapp out of it. I think tasks.org already has such a webapp/website.
  - Andrex 2y ago
    Few iOS apps are based on electron, I would think.
    - oyashirochama 2y ago
      Discord joins the conversation.
- fluidcruft 2y ago
  Then make an app whose sole purpose is to display bookmarks as icons on a scrollable and searchable canvas.

carlosjobim 2y ago

For good reason. The web is a cess pit which people will avoid if they can.

KingMob 2y ago
A term which in no way also applies to apps, that have vastly more ability to spy on you, and DMCA protections against interop and modification. /s At least the spying is efficient, I guess.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  The app store is also ridden with scams and crap. But the web is a horrible experience for normal people compared to apps, which the down voters here don't seem to understand, because they have adblockers etc.
  - troyvit 2y ago
    Normal people need ad blockers about the same way they need clean water. I wish advertising was a viable revenue model for publishers, but it has been abused by large actors for so many years that large US government entities like the FBI recommend an ad blocker[1], and even the FTC lightly suggests it [2]. [1] https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221 https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221 [2] https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-websites-and-apps-collect-and-use-your-information https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-websites-and-apps-coll...
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      The advertising industry is a malware services market.
  - KingMob 2y ago
    Many apps are also ridden with ads, can collect way more personal info than a web site, and unlike sites, it's way harder to block their ads. (E.g., installing a PiHole on your network vs installing a browser extension.) Altering an app is a DMCA violation of whatever cryptography they use; altering a web site is your legal right via extensions/userscripts.

Andrex 2y ago

"The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is." I'd love to know where this idea started, because I'm not convinced it's actually based on any kind of real data. If it is, I don't think it's accurate for the past 5+ years. Knowledge of the web is probably flat. And apps and smartphones have peaked in the West. Those are my anecdotes to add, since that seems to be what we're doing. This line of thinking could lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy the more it's spread, too.

evilduck 2y ago
The idea that Safari is lagging behind is nonsense too. People live in their own fantasies. Press someone to explain what bugs or missing features they're specifically saying are holding the web back and you will probably get a very short list of nonstandard or experimental APIs like WebUSB.
- pton_xd 2y ago
  Here's a site that lists a few [0]. I will say that if you've spent any time trying to develop a web-based app it becomes painfully obvious that Apple is doing the absolute bare minimum to support the browser on iOS. PWAs are barely functional. [0] https://ios404.com https://ios404.com
  - evilduck 2y ago
    Played your role, as expected. No actual problems described and a link to a list of mostly "draft" and "candidate" items. Every fucking time.
espadrine 2y ago
Do people search for applications in the App Store or on the Web? This 2023 study[0] indicates 48% of people discover apps by browsing through the App Stores, compared to 21% that discover them through Web search engines. Is this a trend? This 2015 study[1] indicates 40% of people browse for apps in the App Stores, compared to 25% (“1 in 4”) that discover them through Web search engines. Does this apply to Patreon? The CEO of Patreon had this to say:[2] > iOS is actually now the most used platform for communities on Patreon. [0]: https://www.semrush.com/blog/app-store-optimization/ https://www.semrush.com/blog/app-store-optimization/ [1]: https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/app-and-mobile/mobile-app-marketing-insights/ https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/app-and... [2]: https://youtu.be/L-LoTH3PzgM?si=F1xraTOFxx8SJN0C&t=61 https://youtu.be/L-LoTH3PzgM?si=F1xraTOFxx8SJN0C&t=61