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> Nothing stops me from self-signing apps or using websites only. That is clearly not the same thing. Why don't you do the exact same thing? I mean, other than

> Nothing stops me from self-signing apps or using websites only. That is clearly not the same thing. Why don't you do the exact same thing? I mean, other than the monopolistic efforts holding you back. (I recognize that you are trying to bring your own monopolistic definition to the table, and while I'm sure it has merit as a better definition, I fail to understand what value you think there is in trying to change the subject? Why not just stick to the topic in progress like everyone else, even if you don't love everything about it? The rest of us probably don't love it either, but that's not a good reason to toss the ball to the side in an effort to disrupt play because it isn't the brand of ball you have a preference for.)

sudosysgen 2y ago
I'm not trying to use my own monopolistic definition. I'm using the generally accepted one, which cares about markets and where you can't narrowly define them, but you instead have to look at what services/goods are provided for what purpose. It's like saying that Sony has a monopoly on PS5 games distribution, it wouldn't really fly, though it might if there was a market where PS5 games were 80% of games. The point I'm making isn't that Apple is doing good here - I absolutely hate it, actually. The point I'm making is that the issue isn't that there's a monopoly, strictly speaking, but that Apple engages in anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices which are harmful even without a monopoly.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > The point I'm making is that the issue isn't that there's a monopoly I made the same mistake at one point, so I feel for you[1], but what was actually said was "monopolistic". That is not the same as a monopoly. One can act in a monopolistic manner without actually having a monopoly. [1] But I don't feel for, and frankly find it incredibly strange, that you are now doubling down on your mistake after it was brought to your attention that you were speaking outside of the context of discussion.
  - sudosysgen 2y ago
    The top-level comment was talking about a monopoly, and you talked about Apple having a monopolistic position. In markets where Apple is in not in monopolistic positions, nor is it a monopoly, the problem is the anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices that enable it to put itself between market participants, not the position. Even if Apple doesn't seek a monopoly, the app distribution practices are the problem and would lead to the same undue value extraction. I'm taking monopolistic position to mean a grossly dominant market position short of a monopoly. If you meant it as engaging in "monopolistic competition", that's another concept entirely that's irrelevant here. I also took monopolistic behaviour to mean behaviour seeking to monopolize.

sudosysgen 2y ago

I'm not trying to use my own monopolistic definition. I'm using the generally accepted one, which cares about markets and where you can't narrowly define them, but you instead have to look at what services/goods are provided for what purpose. It's like saying that Sony has a monopoly on PS5 games distribution, it wouldn't really fly, though it might if there was a market where PS5 games were 80% of games. The point I'm making isn't that Apple is doing good here - I absolutely hate it, actually. The point I'm making is that the issue isn't that there's a monopoly, strictly speaking, but that Apple engages in anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices which are harmful even without a monopoly.

randomdata 2y ago
> The point I'm making is that the issue isn't that there's a monopoly I made the same mistake at one point, so I feel for you[1], but what was actually said was "monopolistic". That is not the same as a monopoly. One can act in a monopolistic manner without actually having a monopoly. [1] But I don't feel for, and frankly find it incredibly strange, that you are now doubling down on your mistake after it was brought to your attention that you were speaking outside of the context of discussion.
- sudosysgen 2y ago
  The top-level comment was talking about a monopoly, and you talked about Apple having a monopolistic position. In markets where Apple is in not in monopolistic positions, nor is it a monopoly, the problem is the anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices that enable it to put itself between market participants, not the position. Even if Apple doesn't seek a monopoly, the app distribution practices are the problem and would lead to the same undue value extraction. I'm taking monopolistic position to mean a grossly dominant market position short of a monopoly. If you meant it as engaging in "monopolistic competition", that's another concept entirely that's irrelevant here. I also took monopolistic behaviour to mean behaviour seeking to monopolize.