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I really think it's worth it to go back and read the original Apollo program proposals, technical conference memos, and NASA administrative plans to see the hi

I really think it's worth it to go back and read the original Apollo program proposals, technical conference memos, and NASA administrative plans to see the history of the program and how something like this gets off the ground in the first place. The US was not a bastion of technical capability or well educated people in the 1950s. To say that the "skill doesn't exist anymore" suggests a misunderstanding of "where it comes from" in the first place. You can do the same thing for Apollo as you can for the Shuttle. The process of reading through these histories, from front to back, is incredibly enlightening, and shows just how with determination alone you can build something like this from scratch. That being said.. it really also helps if there's a dual purpose use for the military.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
Apollo really was a rare alignment of motivations, unbounded optimism meets existential fear, ie, "humanity can migrate into the stars" overlapping with "if we don't do this the commies win first strike capability", seems unlikely to re-occur.
sgnelson 2y ago
I think you drastically underestimate the influence that World War 2 had on up-skilling a technological workforce in the United States. I know a handful of people who's fathers or relatives went from farm boy to a radio technician with basic electrical engineering skills (or a similar story) because of the war. The effect that war had on the technological progress, including learning the skills of how to manage a not-so-simple idea like going to the moon into reality was incredible, and a direct spinoff from the bureaucracy created during the war.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  Most people want to deny it, but both Apollo and Space Shuttle were the results of there being a Fucking War(tm) that had to be won at any cost. Nowadays, that specific motivator is squarely with the Chinese.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    But what wars has China started though in order for us to be afraid of them? If I look at the current score board in the last decades, US has invaded more counties than China (have they found those WMDs yet?), yet somehow we're (us non Americans in the west) are supposed to fear China, because reasons? Honestly, my biggest enemy right now is my own EU government who has done the biggest damage to our country and because of them there's a shortage of doctors, teachers, etc, high inflation, stagnating wages, high taxes, unaffordable housing, etc. We have done that ourselves, not China. Whatever bad things China is doing in their own back yard is much less damaging to us than all those things I've just mentioned yet somehow we're expected to fear China. Aren't these foreign boogie men convenient finger pointing to our corrupt and incompetent leadership: "Hey, don't look at us for your plummeting standard of living, look at Covid, Russia, China, immigrants with beards, The Loch Ness Monster, etc". Give me a break.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      Powerful undemocratic countries are scary, if they are willing to oppress their own people they are for sure willing to oppress other people as well.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >Powerful undemocratic countries are scary Just like all the other undemocratic dictatorships the west is "friends" with and turn a blind eye to their anti human rights actions?
        zo1 2y ago
        There is no reasoning about this. Government as an entity (especially the "Rainbow" West ones like the EU and US) is literally schizophrenic or crazy or has multiple personality disorder (that's the best analogy I can come up with). Their laws are not internally consistent, their words don't match their actions, they entertain conflicting and opposing priorities, they actively do things to their own detriment, they promote the well-being of everyone but their own citizens, they can't get consensus on anything from their own populace, and they blame everyone and themselves too at the same time for their own failings. They admit their own failings by showing us who they are "allergic" to. So yes, China may be a "bad guy", but they're painted as a boogeyman for a reason.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

Apollo really was a rare alignment of motivations, unbounded optimism meets existential fear, ie, "humanity can migrate into the stars" overlapping with "if we don't do this the commies win first strike capability", seems unlikely to re-occur.

sgnelson 2y ago

I think you drastically underestimate the influence that World War 2 had on up-skilling a technological workforce in the United States. I know a handful of people who's fathers or relatives went from farm boy to a radio technician with basic electrical engineering skills (or a similar story) because of the war. The effect that war had on the technological progress, including learning the skills of how to manage a not-so-simple idea like going to the moon into reality was incredible, and a direct spinoff from the bureaucracy created during the war.

Dalewyn 2y ago
Most people want to deny it, but both Apollo and Space Shuttle were the results of there being a Fucking War(tm) that had to be won at any cost. Nowadays, that specific motivator is squarely with the Chinese.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  But what wars has China started though in order for us to be afraid of them? If I look at the current score board in the last decades, US has invaded more counties than China (have they found those WMDs yet?), yet somehow we're (us non Americans in the west) are supposed to fear China, because reasons? Honestly, my biggest enemy right now is my own EU government who has done the biggest damage to our country and because of them there's a shortage of doctors, teachers, etc, high inflation, stagnating wages, high taxes, unaffordable housing, etc. We have done that ourselves, not China. Whatever bad things China is doing in their own back yard is much less damaging to us than all those things I've just mentioned yet somehow we're expected to fear China. Aren't these foreign boogie men convenient finger pointing to our corrupt and incompetent leadership: "Hey, don't look at us for your plummeting standard of living, look at Covid, Russia, China, immigrants with beards, The Loch Ness Monster, etc". Give me a break.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    Powerful undemocratic countries are scary, if they are willing to oppress their own people they are for sure willing to oppress other people as well.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >Powerful undemocratic countries are scary Just like all the other undemocratic dictatorships the west is "friends" with and turn a blind eye to their anti human rights actions?
      - zo1 2y ago
        There is no reasoning about this. Government as an entity (especially the "Rainbow" West ones like the EU and US) is literally schizophrenic or crazy or has multiple personality disorder (that's the best analogy I can come up with). Their laws are not internally consistent, their words don't match their actions, they entertain conflicting and opposing priorities, they actively do things to their own detriment, they promote the well-being of everyone but their own citizens, they can't get consensus on anything from their own populace, and they blame everyone and themselves too at the same time for their own failings. They admit their own failings by showing us who they are "allergic" to. So yes, China may be a "bad guy", but they're painted as a boogeyman for a reason.