5 ms·

While it's certainly possible the ISP could extract the data (and might be forced to by some intelligence agency), it was also possible to just listen to the da

While it's certainly possible the ISP could extract the data (and might be forced to by some intelligence agency), it was also possible to just listen to the data in transit. Remember that these were the days of people sending data over telephone wires.

ytch 2y ago
Other than eavesdrop, the biggest advantage of HTTPS for me is to stop nasty ISP that injecting advertisement or other code in HTTP page.
- Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
  Also the biggest advantage of HTTPS for any bigco whose business model relies on showing you _their_ ads and no one else’s.
- chgs 2y ago
  Can you not just choose a better ISP?
  - em-bee 2y ago
    i think most people had the option to choose among two, or maybe if they were lucky three ISPs. only big cities had more, and the better alternative ISPs tended to be more expensive too. and since they were not exactly telling you in advance that they were going to do this and they often were locking you into one or two year minimum contracts, switching ISPs was and still is not a simple thing to do.
    - chgs 2y ago
      How odd. I have a choice of dozens in the uk. If I remember back in the day you pups chose a subsidised isp (or even free) which worked by adding adverts into you web browsing. Some people were happy with that. Personally I pay more so that I have support via IRC, have an unfiltered view of the internet, have static IPs, no over subscribing bandwidth. not everyone cares about that so are happy to pay less to get less Why is there so little choice in your area?
- diggan 2y ago
  > the biggest advantage of HTTPS for me is to stop nasty ISP that injecting advertisement or other code in HTTP page Huh? This was/is a thing? I've never seen that from a home ISP I think, only early on in airport's public WiFi and such. But a home ISP injecting ads into webpages? What country was/is this in?
  - ytch 2y ago
    I haven't subscribe such ISP in person, but there are many cases from Internet, it reminds me that never trust any ISP (or Gateway that could inspect data): https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/70970/my-isp-is-injecting-strange-codes-to-every-website-i-visit https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/70970/my-isp-is... https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/157828/my-isp-bsnl-india-is-injecting-ads-using-phozeca-which-spoils-websites-and-mak https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/157828/my-isp-b... https://github.com/net4people/bbs/issues/19 https://github.com/net4people/bbs/issues/19
Wowfunhappy 2y ago
> it was also possible to just listen to the data in transit. Remember that these were the days of people sending data over telephone wires. It's that easy to tap a phone line? Mail order services will take credit card numbers over the phone verbally, right? Why was that considered safer?
chgs 2y ago
People routinely ordered by phone, reading out the card number to the person on the far end.
- diggan 2y ago
  I'm fairly sure this still happens. In 2013-2014 I worked for a company that does outsourced customer support and I worked in the department that handles customer support for logistics in a very famous fruit/computing company, via telephone. If people ended up buying things from me, the standard practice was for them to read out their credit card details so I could purchase things for them, in their name.
  - Wowfunhappy 2y ago
    It absolutely is still accepted practice. I purchased a hotel reservation by phone mere months ago. Hyatt's website was giving me an error during checkout, so I called them, and they took down my CC over the phone. This is why I find it strange that the idea of sending CC information over a dialup phone line was seen as unacceptable.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > This is why I find it strange that the idea of sending CC information over a dialup phone line was seen as unacceptable. Simple, new technology is scary, no matter how "safe" it actually is in reality (or not). Douglas Adams: > 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. > 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. > 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
      - mixmastamyk 2y ago
        Yes, new and scary. But I remember the evening news planting the idea that it was (more) dangerous to the public. Took years for that to dissipate.

ytch 2y ago

Other than eavesdrop, the biggest advantage of HTTPS for me is to stop nasty ISP that injecting advertisement or other code in HTTP page.

Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
Also the biggest advantage of HTTPS for any bigco whose business model relies on showing you _their_ ads and no one else’s.
chgs 2y ago
Can you not just choose a better ISP?
- em-bee 2y ago
  i think most people had the option to choose among two, or maybe if they were lucky three ISPs. only big cities had more, and the better alternative ISPs tended to be more expensive too. and since they were not exactly telling you in advance that they were going to do this and they often were locking you into one or two year minimum contracts, switching ISPs was and still is not a simple thing to do.
  - chgs 2y ago
    How odd. I have a choice of dozens in the uk. If I remember back in the day you pups chose a subsidised isp (or even free) which worked by adding adverts into you web browsing. Some people were happy with that. Personally I pay more so that I have support via IRC, have an unfiltered view of the internet, have static IPs, no over subscribing bandwidth. not everyone cares about that so are happy to pay less to get less Why is there so little choice in your area?
diggan 2y ago
> the biggest advantage of HTTPS for me is to stop nasty ISP that injecting advertisement or other code in HTTP page Huh? This was/is a thing? I've never seen that from a home ISP I think, only early on in airport's public WiFi and such. But a home ISP injecting ads into webpages? What country was/is this in?
- ytch 2y ago
  I haven't subscribe such ISP in person, but there are many cases from Internet, it reminds me that never trust any ISP (or Gateway that could inspect data): https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/70970/my-isp-is-injecting-strange-codes-to-every-website-i-visit https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/70970/my-isp-is... https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/157828/my-isp-bsnl-india-is-injecting-ads-using-phozeca-which-spoils-websites-and-mak https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/157828/my-isp-b... https://github.com/net4people/bbs/issues/19 https://github.com/net4people/bbs/issues/19

Wowfunhappy 2y ago

> it was also possible to just listen to the data in transit. Remember that these were the days of people sending data over telephone wires. It's that easy to tap a phone line? Mail order services will take credit card numbers over the phone verbally, right? Why was that considered safer?

chgs 2y ago

People routinely ordered by phone, reading out the card number to the person on the far end.

diggan 2y ago
I'm fairly sure this still happens. In 2013-2014 I worked for a company that does outsourced customer support and I worked in the department that handles customer support for logistics in a very famous fruit/computing company, via telephone. If people ended up buying things from me, the standard practice was for them to read out their credit card details so I could purchase things for them, in their name.
- Wowfunhappy 2y ago
  It absolutely is still accepted practice. I purchased a hotel reservation by phone mere months ago. Hyatt's website was giving me an error during checkout, so I called them, and they took down my CC over the phone. This is why I find it strange that the idea of sending CC information over a dialup phone line was seen as unacceptable.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > This is why I find it strange that the idea of sending CC information over a dialup phone line was seen as unacceptable. Simple, new technology is scary, no matter how "safe" it actually is in reality (or not). Douglas Adams: > 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. > 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. > 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Yes, new and scary. But I remember the evening news planting the idea that it was (more) dangerous to the public. Took years for that to dissipate.