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I think your post contradicts itself. It sounds like they "do inspections" every day of the year. > Since the festival shooting Vegas hotels have a policy of e

by Shank 2y ago

I think your post contradicts itself. It sounds like they "do inspections" every day of the year. > Since the festival shooting Vegas hotels have a policy of entering every room every 24 hours > so now they do inspections when BlackHat/DefCon is in town because they don't trust their own tracking systems What's the difference between these two statements? It sounds to me like the only point is that they have a manual ledger to track inspections, which is probably for the best, given that any would-be domestic terrorist would surely know how to use Google and find this information too.

pathartl 2y ago
I think they mean that cleaning services will passively do inspections, but past cons have marked their rooms as being already cleaned in their system. They do manual inspections during Defcon because they can't rely that cleaning services have gotten to their room.
krisoft 2y ago
> What's the difference between these two statements? One describes the policy. Which is what they want to achieve. They want to achieve that a hotel employee checks on every room every 24 hour. The other describes that they don't trust their usual implementation during BlackHat/DefCon. > which is probably for the best, given that any would-be domestic terrorist would surely know how to use Google and find this information too. The whole thing provides probabilistic protection anyway. (Also known as a security theatre, if you want to be uncharitable.) A determined attacker will appear as a model hotel guest up until the point they want to attack. Then they wait until housekeeping is done with their room and move their weapons in the room only after. Hotels are full of people moving luggage around at all hours so this won't be suspicious to anyone. The policy will probably catch some would be attackers (the dumb ones). It will also probably uncover a lot more drug overdoses/suicides/murders/sudden heart attack victims, several days earlier than they would be uncovered otherwise. I bet that for every Stephen Paddock found there is at least a hundred "oops this room has a dead person in it for some reason".
- holgerschurig 2y ago
  > One describes the policy. Which is what they want to achieve. They want to achieve that a hotel employee checks on every room every 24 hour. I find it puzzling how you (and all the other commenters here) accept this rule like sheeps. Normally, you US citizens cannot stop boasting how the USA is supposedly "the land of the free". So don't take this personally, I'm replying to this as to all the others that appear like they find it totally normal that some security guy or hotel cleaning can enter a rented room. Every 24 hours, or at all. It's not normal. And IMHO not even needed / helpful. No 24h check will ever hinder a mass-shooter. The criminal would just wait until room cleaning made their job, then go to his car and get the big suitcase with all the guns and ammunition one can buy entirely too easy in the US. And then he can shot from his room, minutes after this compulsory do-nothing 24h "security" check. Here, were I am (Germany), things are completely different. First, it's not so easy to get weapons. Not even at gun exhibitions. That in itself helps tremendously getting a less violent society. Second, here we have the right, upheld by courts, that a hotel tenant can make the hotel not enter his room. A "do not disturb" sign is everything that is needed. If you want, you can look it up under "Frankfurter Landgerichts aus dem Jahr 2009 (AZ 2-19 O 153/08)". Sure, there are other rulings that landlords (including hoteliers) have under some circumstances the right to enter a property they rented out. Like fire, or water pipe broken. Actual, imminent danger. Not hypothetical danger! But they even cannot get a general "you can always enter" term signed, that would be null and void over here.
  - khafra 2y ago
    > the USA is supposedly "the land of the free". The more free private entities are from government oversight, the more carefully they have to read contracts. For example, even the US is not quite so free as to allow people to sell their organs. If it were, citizens would have to carefully read room rental contracts at hotels, to make sure there were no conditions which included forfeiture of a kidney. (FWIW, I'm now living in Germany, and it's significantly more relaxing with a bit less freedom. There's definitely different tradeoffs which make more sense for different people).
    - 2y ago
mlyle 2y ago
https://x.com/d0rkph0enix/status/1822814018643374260 https://x.com/d0rkph0enix/status/1822814018643374260 The protocol for non-DefCon rooms: * Housekeeping services the room. * If housekeeping was unable to service the room, security will come take a look. The protocol for DefCon rooms: * Security comes and takes a look no matter what, and is, from reports, particularly invasive.
- solardev 2y ago
  I don't know what's worse in that thread: * They have to visually inspect upwards of 1000 rooms every day looking for vaguely electronic looking things * They have to use Microsoft Teams Poor Hilton employees...
  - The_SamminAter 2y ago
    And to think that they never included any of this in Hilton Garden Inn: Ultimate Team Play...
    - solardev 2y ago
      LOL, I can't believe that was a real thing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilton_Garden_Inn:_Ultimate_Team_Play https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilton_Garden_Inn:_Ultimate_Te...

by Shank 2y ago

pathartl 2y ago

I think they mean that cleaning services will passively do inspections, but past cons have marked their rooms as being already cleaned in their system. They do manual inspections during Defcon because they can't rely that cleaning services have gotten to their room.

krisoft 2y ago

> What's the difference between these two statements? One describes the policy. Which is what they want to achieve. They want to achieve that a hotel employee checks on every room every 24 hour. The other describes that they don't trust their usual implementation during BlackHat/DefCon. > which is probably for the best, given that any would-be domestic terrorist would surely know how to use Google and find this information too. The whole thing provides probabilistic protection anyway. (Also known as a security theatre, if you want to be uncharitable.) A determined attacker will appear as a model hotel guest up until the point they want to attack. Then they wait until housekeeping is done with their room and move their weapons in the room only after. Hotels are full of people moving luggage around at all hours so this won't be suspicious to anyone. The policy will probably catch some would be attackers (the dumb ones). It will also probably uncover a lot more drug overdoses/suicides/murders/sudden heart attack victims, several days earlier than they would be uncovered otherwise. I bet that for every Stephen Paddock found there is at least a hundred "oops this room has a dead person in it for some reason".

holgerschurig 2y ago
> One describes the policy. Which is what they want to achieve. They want to achieve that a hotel employee checks on every room every 24 hour. I find it puzzling how you (and all the other commenters here) accept this rule like sheeps. Normally, you US citizens cannot stop boasting how the USA is supposedly "the land of the free". So don't take this personally, I'm replying to this as to all the others that appear like they find it totally normal that some security guy or hotel cleaning can enter a rented room. Every 24 hours, or at all. It's not normal. And IMHO not even needed / helpful. No 24h check will ever hinder a mass-shooter. The criminal would just wait until room cleaning made their job, then go to his car and get the big suitcase with all the guns and ammunition one can buy entirely too easy in the US. And then he can shot from his room, minutes after this compulsory do-nothing 24h "security" check. Here, were I am (Germany), things are completely different. First, it's not so easy to get weapons. Not even at gun exhibitions. That in itself helps tremendously getting a less violent society. Second, here we have the right, upheld by courts, that a hotel tenant can make the hotel not enter his room. A "do not disturb" sign is everything that is needed. If you want, you can look it up under "Frankfurter Landgerichts aus dem Jahr 2009 (AZ 2-19 O 153/08)". Sure, there are other rulings that landlords (including hoteliers) have under some circumstances the right to enter a property they rented out. Like fire, or water pipe broken. Actual, imminent danger. Not hypothetical danger! But they even cannot get a general "you can always enter" term signed, that would be null and void over here.
- khafra 2y ago
  > the USA is supposedly "the land of the free". The more free private entities are from government oversight, the more carefully they have to read contracts. For example, even the US is not quite so free as to allow people to sell their organs. If it were, citizens would have to carefully read room rental contracts at hotels, to make sure there were no conditions which included forfeiture of a kidney. (FWIW, I'm now living in Germany, and it's significantly more relaxing with a bit less freedom. There's definitely different tradeoffs which make more sense for different people).
  - 2y ago

mlyle 2y ago

https://x.com/d0rkph0enix/status/1822814018643374260 https://x.com/d0rkph0enix/status/1822814018643374260 The protocol for non-DefCon rooms: * Housekeeping services the room. * If housekeeping was unable to service the room, security will come take a look. The protocol for DefCon rooms: * Security comes and takes a look no matter what, and is, from reports, particularly invasive.

solardev 2y ago
I don't know what's worse in that thread: * They have to visually inspect upwards of 1000 rooms every day looking for vaguely electronic looking things * They have to use Microsoft Teams Poor Hilton employees...
- The_SamminAter 2y ago
  And to think that they never included any of this in Hilton Garden Inn: Ultimate Team Play...
  - solardev 2y ago
    LOL, I can't believe that was a real thing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilton_Garden_Inn:_Ultimate_Team_Play https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilton_Garden_Inn:_Ultimate_Te...