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The other day, I was thinking about how important a good handyman is for my mental health. I used to fix things myself, but spending all my free time doing home

The other day, I was thinking about how important a good handyman is for my mental health. I used to fix things myself, but spending all my free time doing home repair was withdrawing from the limited bank account of my personal sanity. Having the house broken open for months while I picked away at it after work and on weekends was bad for morale, too. And doing the work myself was sometimes dispiriting rather than empowering—If someone else makes a mistake, even if I'm paying them, I can for whatever reason tolerate that with less frustration than when I screw up myself. Accepting that I am lucky enough to have a surplus of money that I can exchange for time and serenity was a big step for me. My conclusion was that cultivating a relationship with a good handyman is of as much value for me as any other long term service relationship: doctor, therapist, waitress, barista, etc. So, even though I'm not married and not having relationship angst per se, this article makes sense to me through that reinterpretation.

abakker 2y ago
As someone who does more than the average person’s share of DIY, I agree for another reason: when I do want to do a project, I want to do the kind of project that pleases me. I’m experienced enough to know I hate drywall work, and I don’t really want to do plumbing on drains or concrete, so, I always have pros do that. But, I’m pretty happy to hack through some trim carpentry and electrical any day.
- Domenic_S 2y ago
  I feel seen. I can't stand drywall work - although I'll do a patch'n'texture that's too small to hire out if i absolutely have to. The folks who do drywall for a living are magicians that can knock out the job 5x faster than me, and 20x better. I'll pay all day. Electrical on the other hand I find to be a blast. It's more a hobby than a chore, although there are some things I won't touch, like running conduit for lv or installing a sizable solar system. The pros are just so good at it. Cars too - I'll change every fluid, do brake jobs, install short shift kits, dashcams, even got a windows VM running so I could use old software to read OBD-I codes on my old car. But timing or a top-end rebuild.. I leave that to the pros. I think there's something to be said for doing like 80% of the things yourself even when you can afford more. It's so gratifying to do even a simple job and when it's done, it's done. It's so unlike most of our day-to-day that's full of multi-month efforts that depend on other people.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    You can do timing, it's definitely shade mechanic level, not hard at all. Just need a timing light and tachometer.
bluGill 2y ago
Sometimes I feel the same way. Other times I get frustrated because I'm paying a lot of money for things I know I can do myself for much less - and because I'm spending that money there I don't even have it to buy the toys I want to use up that time paying someone else gave me. There is a balance here and it is different for different people.
outworlder 2y ago
I think that it all depends on where the motivation comes from. If it's just to save money, that's nice, but the need to do it disappears when you have enough to spare. For me, I tend to want to fix things more the more my job is boring and I'm not able to work on new things or improve existing ones. I'll then take some satisfaction on actually being able to affect change, even if it is in my own environment. It can be a bit therapeutic. I will, however, delegate some work when I don't have the tools or the means to do it efficiently. I had an alternator failure. I could replace it myself, I know how. But the car in question has it in a pretty difficult to access location. It is doable but would probably take me the whole day (if not more) with just a jack and stands. So I sent it to the mechanic. And yes, if you are falling behind on your repairs or if you have to spend most of your free time to do it, it's not worth it, you need more hands. Also, if you actually don't have free time and you would use that time to earn more money.
segmondy 2y ago
It does come down to mindset. I do my yard work, 1 acre, mowing, edging, trimming, leaf blowing, raking, etc. My entire mindset when I do it is, "It's exercise". I do car repairs and own 2 classic cars. My mindset is "It's yoga!" There's the fun of figuring out how to solve problems I haven't, I work with computers all day and I get to work with my hand. My family gets to see me do things and it's very important for them to know they can do things and solve problems by themselves, I sometimes involve them so it's not me alone but a family thing. The mindset is very important. allow yourself to make mistakes, have fun with it. It's never been this easy! First go to youtube, watch a few videos, read a book or blog and get to work. What I find that makes it frustrating for a lot of people is not having the proper tools, extra hands if needed and knowledge.
- admax88qqq 2y ago
  If it’s your gardens or your toy car it’s a different experience than if it’s your family bathroom or family car. There is time pressure and angst at not having your daily use things in working order
  - GuB-42 2y ago
    If it is your family bathroom or car, if you have worked on it before, chances are that you can deal with a problem on the spot thanks to the skills you learned and the tools you got for the occasion. No need to wait for the handyman. And if it is a problem you can't solve, you may also have better understanding, which makes explaining the situation to a professional easier.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      The entire premise here is that's not the case. The repair/remodel drags out because you're doing it in your spare time, and mistakes and setbacks are a drag on your motivation. Meanwhile you and your family aren't able to use your main bathroom (or whatever), and that stresses you out, makes you feel guilty that progress isn't happening faster. I get this, and will call a handyman for some jobs, but I try to do repairs and "upgrades" myself when the work seems manageable to me.
pimlottc 2y ago
For me it's about giving myself the permission to "give up" and let someone else handle it. Like you, I realized that being surrounded by broken things and incomplete projects was causing me a lot of constant low-level stress. As a person who prides themselves on being self-reliant, it's hard to pay for something that I know I could do it myself, even when the cost is insignificant. It helps to remind myself there are other things to optimize for, like saving time and preserving mental sanity.
thinkingtoilet 2y ago
I always tell people, the most valuable thing you can buy with money is time. I can clean my house, but I am fortunate enough now that I can pay someone else to do it. I don't sit around and do nothing in that time, I enjoy my life or do other tasks. I never feel bad exchanging money for time.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  The issue I often find is that by the time I pay taxes on my own salary, their salary, their insurance and overhead, I lose more time hiring it out unless my wages are at least 3-4x theirs. The real hack to DIY is you eliminate taxes and insurance, other than sales tax. It's one of the few ways to actually keep almost all the value you generate.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Indeed. For me to end up with the same amount of money after paying a company $100 rather than doing something myself, I have to go out and make an extra $167. That company probably then pays the actual worker something between $25 and $50, so I have to have a quite high multiple (plus the opportunity to just go work a small amount extra for pay) to make the trade make economic sense.
    - ds_opseeker 2y ago
      All of which is strong argument in favor of replacing all income tax with land tax. The idea starts to make a lot of sense once you look at its framing. This includes the argument you make above (why can't you hire help out of pre-tax income, like any other business can?) and more on the legitimacy of taxation. https://lawliberty.org/book-review/georgism-revisited/ https://lawliberty.org/book-review/georgism-revisited/
      - PopAlongKid 2y ago
        >why can't you hire help out of pre-tax income, like any other business can Leaving aside the obvious fact that your personal activities are not a business[0], you can indeed hire help out of pre-tax income -- in the U.S. no one pays income tax on their gross income, only their taxable income. By the time common tax credits are factored in, a married couple with children may easily have $30-40K of gross income each year not subject to income tax. Many, if not most, homeowners do not need to go out and work extra hours to pay someone to do work to repair their property, any more than they need to work extra hours to pay for food and clothing, so looking only at the marginal tax rate is misleading (as in the example above of earning an extra $167 to have $100 after tax). Further, work you pay for that improves the property (as opposed to repairs) is added to the tax basis of the property, reducing future taxable income when the property is sold. Along with the potential to exclude up to $250K/$500K (single/married) of gain[1] from selling the property is a huge source of pre-tax income. [0]and even businesses can only deduct expenses for people they hire for services that are related to generating a profit. [1]Section 121 exclusion
michaelrpeskin 2y ago
Agree - I have a great handyman who also lets me "help". I can do the grunt work (carrying heavy stuff from the truck, demoing stuff, etc) saving him time, and he can do the stuff he's experienced at (he can eyeball a measurement and do a perfect cut much faster and better than I ever could) saving me time. Plus I get to learn how to do stuff. I get to be involved so I feel ownership, I get much better work done than if I did it myself, and I learn so that I can start to take on more projects myself.
- konschubert 2y ago
  I think this is awesome and I think I need to find a handyman like that. PS: I am sure this isn't the case, but I am having this funny image in my head of a handyman giving you "work" so you don't mess with his stuff, like a parent gives their kids some mock work when they are too small to actually help. PPS: Don't do this with your kids for too long - they can figure out at a pretty young age if they are just playing or actually helping.
  - michaelrpeskin 2y ago
    Ha! When we were putting in the flooring in the kitchen, I kept interrupting him "optimizing" the layout and he snapped at me like one of his workers. He immediately apologized since I was paying him, but I told him that he was supposed to yell at me because he is the boss when it comes to building stuff. He knows what he's doing and I'm just trying to learn. We have a great relationship and I know when to back off and let the expert just do the right thing.
esafak 2y ago
I don't bother learning these things because I'm never going to get enough practice to get good at it, and my time is already accounted for. There is nothing in my schedule I would eliminate to make space for learning such things. Let everyone do what they're good at.
- bluGill 2y ago
  I got good at them growing up because I had a family. When someone was going a project they called the family and a dozen people showed up. We were never good, but we all knew enough to get the job done and teach each other a little more - after a few years we had a reasonable grasp of nearly everything because we had done it. I miss living near them. I no longer have a network I can call for help on projects and so the things I can get done are very limited.
  - esafak 2y ago
    You can also rely on them to share tools. When you're on your own, does it make sense to buy the numerous tools that you only use once in a blue moon? Now I have to decide if I want to buy or rent them. Well if I'm going to go that trouble I can just pay someone to do it too.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      You can rent some tools. If nothing else I often justify a good tool because if I hired someone the pro would have the good tools. Typically the first time I do a job myself I lose money on tools - but the next time I have that tool and so I save a lot. Of course over the years I have a good idea what tools I'm likely to use.
- eppp 2y ago
  What if you are good at learning new things?
  - esafak 2y ago
    If it gives you joy do it. I find no intrinsic joy in plumbing, electrical work, and so on; it's a chore to me. The payoff in seeing the job done often pales beside the trouble I have to go to complete it. With more skill, the balance tips in favor of doing it yourself. I'm at that point at other things. I can prepare a good meal faster than you can order it.
Animats 2y ago
> Having the house broken open for months There's a lot to be said for not having too much work in progress. Sometimes it's better to bring in a whole crew and get the job done.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Or alternatively doing less at a time. Can you replace the vanity without doing the floor, then when that is done do the shower, then the toilet/floor. (in most bathrooms the toilet is the only think that needs to sit on the floor, the rest you can shim and then hide the seam in some trim). I try to break all my projects down into things I can do in a day - often not possible, but when it is I'm more likely to get them done.
  - Animats 2y ago
    Then you paint the place several times. Or it looks partly done for a long time.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Paint is quick and easy. Not that I disagree with your point, but it isn't a big deal.
hippich 2y ago
I absolutely agree, but I am having hard time finding such a person... The one who show up and who will do things right... The thought of trying to find a person like that, are multiple failures, just makes it easier to do it myself, even if I will hate spending time on it.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I recommend asking around in your social circle of other homeowners. If you know someone who deals with houses a lot, like a realtor, ask them for recommendations. I got my handyman rec from my realtor, and he's fantastic.
psadauskas 2y ago
I disagree, and in particular your point about "frustration", I find the opposite to be true for me. If I hire someone to do something, and they do a bad job, I have to beg them to come out and fix it, if they even will at all. And they're the only one with the knowledge and experience and tools to do the repair, so I feel frustrated that I'm unable to resolve it, its going to be like that forever. If I do something myself, now I've learned how to do it, and buying any necessary tools and equipment to do it was probably cheaper than hiring someone to do it. And if I do a bad job, I console myself that I could fix it if I cared enough, even if I never get around to it. At some point it'll annoy me enough that I will fix it, or it won't and I won't care. Personally, I find this to be much better for my mental health.
- lupire 2y ago
  Even better, never fix anything, live in squalor, and be happy that you could have a better life if you worked harder.
  - croo 2y ago
    I agree with the person you are responding to and your snarky remark bothers me to no end. No one will care more about your house and problems than you do so they will often do a more sloppy job and the only thing that saves their face is their experience of doing their job more often than you do. There's always more things that needs to be done than time you have. In practice you always need to prioritize between 1. what will you spend your time to learn and do it good 2.what will you spend your money to make others do it worse(coin flip, it may be good) 3. or not do it at all. The choice is not trivial.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > buying any necessary tools and equipment to do it was probably cheaper than hiring someone to do it This has really driven my decisions a lot. I've found that pretty much any set of tools I could need for common home repair costs less than 2 hours of labor that someone would charge me. Sure, my time acquiring these tools and using them isn't worthless, but I personally enjoy doing it and find that to have value in and of itself. (Certainly that's not true of everyone.) There are some cases where I just don't want to deal with it, though. For example, I needed a new railing put on my deck a few months ago. I know I'm not great at woodworking, and honing those skills doesn't really interest me all that much; someone else would do a much nicer job of it than I would. I didn't want to have to buy some more tools that I don't really have good storage space for. My compromise was to hire a handyman I trust to build the railing, but I decided I would stain it myself.
efsavage 2y ago
A good handyman is an incredible asset. I've had periods where I had one available, but they are very hard to find, and like most professions, hard to keep as someone else will often outbid you (or offer full time employement in these cases). I could keep one busy for weeks right now, if not longer... I too lean towards DIY but have had to learn to make the hard decision on projects. "Will I realistically get this done in O(days|weeks)?" "Do we actually have any weekends free in the next ~month?" This usually leaves enough low-pressure jobs for me to do on my own, while maintaining domestic harmony by paying someone to do the rest.
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Handyman here. I think maybe you just explained a thing that's confused and confounded me for decades now. That innate difference between myself and my clients that I never really grasped: I can live with screwing something up myself because I can always go back and get it right the 2nd time. I absolutely cannot abide paying someone else good money to produce anything other than stellar results, and I loathe paying anyone to do anything I know I can do myself.
subsubzero 2y ago
Its so funny I feel the exact opposite. I love doing work around the house as it saves money and also brings me immense satisfaction. I work in software so all of my toil is on ethereal products, if the company goes under all of my work is lost for eternity(well unless the internet archive keeps it alive). But with upkeep on a house I am making my physical environment better and the effects will survive a long time. I replaced all 100 or so electrical outlets in my house and when I was doing this I was thinking of who initially installed these and in the future, perhaps in 30-40 years(or longer!) who will update my work. As for yardwork I could easily hire a gardner but I enjoy being outside and physical activity and sunlight(vitamin D) are great for you. Plus you save money and have the satisfaction that you made your physical world a better more attractive space. That being said a house that needs alot of upkeep as everything is extremely out of date would be(for me) very stressful and time consuming, so everything is relative.
goldpizza44 2y ago
I am super fortunate that my spouse likes to do the home projects as well. She is artistic, and I am mechanical. We solve problems together....when I don't know how to do something electrical or plumbing, and she has no idea at all, I can explain to her what the problem is, and either she gets it enough to point me in the right direction or in the process of explaining the problem I get the solution. When she is agonizing over some color scheme (which in most cases doesn't interest me much) she will explain what she wants to achieve, and I can ask "stupid" questions that lead her to the answer...or in the odd case I make a suggestion and the lightbulb pops on. It seems to me the mental health professionals do the same thing. Together we have tackled installing over a 1000 sqft of hardwood flooring, removing popcorn ceilings (yuk), re-engineering built in cabinetry to accommodate an 82" TV, gutting and rebuilding 3 bathrooms, re-upholstering a livingroom suite that has no right angles (all curves), running a 90ft PEX pipe through a ceiling crawl space after receive a quote from a plumber for $8000 (took a day of our time). The problem I have with "professionals" is that they all tell me a different story of what I need, and the "other guy" is always dead wrong. I need a new roof and am getting quotes from multiple vendors....Just today I had calls with a couple of the vendors and they told me opposite stories of what "I need". One told me I need to replace all the wall flashings (which is very difficult and expensive given the siding must come off), and the other said don't touch it if its not leaking. Who to believe? At the end of each project we are amazed at our accomplishment (note youtube helps). It certainly took 5x longer than a professional might take, but the end result was unique, we could change direction mid project, and in the end I know it is not crap work from some guy who left a leak in the wall. I believe the elation we achieved (and compliments from the neighbors), far exceeds the sweat equity that we put into the projects.
mauvehaus 2y ago
> If someone else makes a mistake, even if I'm paying them, I can for whatever reason tolerate that with less frustration than when I screw up myself. By contrast, I take the position that I can fuck up just about anything myself for free, and if I'm paying somebody, they'd better do it right and do it right the first time.

abakker 2y ago

As someone who does more than the average person’s share of DIY, I agree for another reason: when I do want to do a project, I want to do the kind of project that pleases me. I’m experienced enough to know I hate drywall work, and I don’t really want to do plumbing on drains or concrete, so, I always have pros do that. But, I’m pretty happy to hack through some trim carpentry and electrical any day.

Domenic_S 2y ago
I feel seen. I can't stand drywall work - although I'll do a patch'n'texture that's too small to hire out if i absolutely have to. The folks who do drywall for a living are magicians that can knock out the job 5x faster than me, and 20x better. I'll pay all day. Electrical on the other hand I find to be a blast. It's more a hobby than a chore, although there are some things I won't touch, like running conduit for lv or installing a sizable solar system. The pros are just so good at it. Cars too - I'll change every fluid, do brake jobs, install short shift kits, dashcams, even got a windows VM running so I could use old software to read OBD-I codes on my old car. But timing or a top-end rebuild.. I leave that to the pros. I think there's something to be said for doing like 80% of the things yourself even when you can afford more. It's so gratifying to do even a simple job and when it's done, it's done. It's so unlike most of our day-to-day that's full of multi-month efforts that depend on other people.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  You can do timing, it's definitely shade mechanic level, not hard at all. Just need a timing light and tachometer.

bluGill 2y ago

Sometimes I feel the same way. Other times I get frustrated because I'm paying a lot of money for things I know I can do myself for much less - and because I'm spending that money there I don't even have it to buy the toys I want to use up that time paying someone else gave me. There is a balance here and it is different for different people.

outworlder 2y ago

I think that it all depends on where the motivation comes from. If it's just to save money, that's nice, but the need to do it disappears when you have enough to spare. For me, I tend to want to fix things more the more my job is boring and I'm not able to work on new things or improve existing ones. I'll then take some satisfaction on actually being able to affect change, even if it is in my own environment. It can be a bit therapeutic. I will, however, delegate some work when I don't have the tools or the means to do it efficiently. I had an alternator failure. I could replace it myself, I know how. But the car in question has it in a pretty difficult to access location. It is doable but would probably take me the whole day (if not more) with just a jack and stands. So I sent it to the mechanic. And yes, if you are falling behind on your repairs or if you have to spend most of your free time to do it, it's not worth it, you need more hands. Also, if you actually don't have free time and you would use that time to earn more money.

segmondy 2y ago

It does come down to mindset. I do my yard work, 1 acre, mowing, edging, trimming, leaf blowing, raking, etc. My entire mindset when I do it is, "It's exercise". I do car repairs and own 2 classic cars. My mindset is "It's yoga!" There's the fun of figuring out how to solve problems I haven't, I work with computers all day and I get to work with my hand. My family gets to see me do things and it's very important for them to know they can do things and solve problems by themselves, I sometimes involve them so it's not me alone but a family thing. The mindset is very important. allow yourself to make mistakes, have fun with it. It's never been this easy! First go to youtube, watch a few videos, read a book or blog and get to work. What I find that makes it frustrating for a lot of people is not having the proper tools, extra hands if needed and knowledge.

admax88qqq 2y ago
If it’s your gardens or your toy car it’s a different experience than if it’s your family bathroom or family car. There is time pressure and angst at not having your daily use things in working order
- GuB-42 2y ago
  If it is your family bathroom or car, if you have worked on it before, chances are that you can deal with a problem on the spot thanks to the skills you learned and the tools you got for the occasion. No need to wait for the handyman. And if it is a problem you can't solve, you may also have better understanding, which makes explaining the situation to a professional easier.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    The entire premise here is that's not the case. The repair/remodel drags out because you're doing it in your spare time, and mistakes and setbacks are a drag on your motivation. Meanwhile you and your family aren't able to use your main bathroom (or whatever), and that stresses you out, makes you feel guilty that progress isn't happening faster. I get this, and will call a handyman for some jobs, but I try to do repairs and "upgrades" myself when the work seems manageable to me.

pimlottc 2y ago

For me it's about giving myself the permission to "give up" and let someone else handle it. Like you, I realized that being surrounded by broken things and incomplete projects was causing me a lot of constant low-level stress. As a person who prides themselves on being self-reliant, it's hard to pay for something that I know I could do it myself, even when the cost is insignificant. It helps to remind myself there are other things to optimize for, like saving time and preserving mental sanity.

thinkingtoilet 2y ago

I always tell people, the most valuable thing you can buy with money is time. I can clean my house, but I am fortunate enough now that I can pay someone else to do it. I don't sit around and do nothing in that time, I enjoy my life or do other tasks. I never feel bad exchanging money for time.

beaglesss 2y ago
The issue I often find is that by the time I pay taxes on my own salary, their salary, their insurance and overhead, I lose more time hiring it out unless my wages are at least 3-4x theirs. The real hack to DIY is you eliminate taxes and insurance, other than sales tax. It's one of the few ways to actually keep almost all the value you generate.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Indeed. For me to end up with the same amount of money after paying a company $100 rather than doing something myself, I have to go out and make an extra $167. That company probably then pays the actual worker something between $25 and $50, so I have to have a quite high multiple (plus the opportunity to just go work a small amount extra for pay) to make the trade make economic sense.
  - ds_opseeker 2y ago
    All of which is strong argument in favor of replacing all income tax with land tax. The idea starts to make a lot of sense once you look at its framing. This includes the argument you make above (why can't you hire help out of pre-tax income, like any other business can?) and more on the legitimacy of taxation. https://lawliberty.org/book-review/georgism-revisited/ https://lawliberty.org/book-review/georgism-revisited/
    - PopAlongKid 2y ago
      >why can't you hire help out of pre-tax income, like any other business can Leaving aside the obvious fact that your personal activities are not a business[0], you can indeed hire help out of pre-tax income -- in the U.S. no one pays income tax on their gross income, only their taxable income. By the time common tax credits are factored in, a married couple with children may easily have $30-40K of gross income each year not subject to income tax. Many, if not most, homeowners do not need to go out and work extra hours to pay someone to do work to repair their property, any more than they need to work extra hours to pay for food and clothing, so looking only at the marginal tax rate is misleading (as in the example above of earning an extra $167 to have $100 after tax). Further, work you pay for that improves the property (as opposed to repairs) is added to the tax basis of the property, reducing future taxable income when the property is sold. Along with the potential to exclude up to $250K/$500K (single/married) of gain[1] from selling the property is a huge source of pre-tax income. [0]and even businesses can only deduct expenses for people they hire for services that are related to generating a profit. [1]Section 121 exclusion

michaelrpeskin 2y ago

Agree - I have a great handyman who also lets me "help". I can do the grunt work (carrying heavy stuff from the truck, demoing stuff, etc) saving him time, and he can do the stuff he's experienced at (he can eyeball a measurement and do a perfect cut much faster and better than I ever could) saving me time. Plus I get to learn how to do stuff. I get to be involved so I feel ownership, I get much better work done than if I did it myself, and I learn so that I can start to take on more projects myself.

konschubert 2y ago
I think this is awesome and I think I need to find a handyman like that. PS: I am sure this isn't the case, but I am having this funny image in my head of a handyman giving you "work" so you don't mess with his stuff, like a parent gives their kids some mock work when they are too small to actually help. PPS: Don't do this with your kids for too long - they can figure out at a pretty young age if they are just playing or actually helping.
- michaelrpeskin 2y ago
  Ha! When we were putting in the flooring in the kitchen, I kept interrupting him "optimizing" the layout and he snapped at me like one of his workers. He immediately apologized since I was paying him, but I told him that he was supposed to yell at me because he is the boss when it comes to building stuff. He knows what he's doing and I'm just trying to learn. We have a great relationship and I know when to back off and let the expert just do the right thing.

esafak 2y ago

I don't bother learning these things because I'm never going to get enough practice to get good at it, and my time is already accounted for. There is nothing in my schedule I would eliminate to make space for learning such things. Let everyone do what they're good at.

bluGill 2y ago
I got good at them growing up because I had a family. When someone was going a project they called the family and a dozen people showed up. We were never good, but we all knew enough to get the job done and teach each other a little more - after a few years we had a reasonable grasp of nearly everything because we had done it. I miss living near them. I no longer have a network I can call for help on projects and so the things I can get done are very limited.
- esafak 2y ago
  You can also rely on them to share tools. When you're on your own, does it make sense to buy the numerous tools that you only use once in a blue moon? Now I have to decide if I want to buy or rent them. Well if I'm going to go that trouble I can just pay someone to do it too.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    You can rent some tools. If nothing else I often justify a good tool because if I hired someone the pro would have the good tools. Typically the first time I do a job myself I lose money on tools - but the next time I have that tool and so I save a lot. Of course over the years I have a good idea what tools I'm likely to use.
eppp 2y ago
What if you are good at learning new things?
- esafak 2y ago
  If it gives you joy do it. I find no intrinsic joy in plumbing, electrical work, and so on; it's a chore to me. The payoff in seeing the job done often pales beside the trouble I have to go to complete it. With more skill, the balance tips in favor of doing it yourself. I'm at that point at other things. I can prepare a good meal faster than you can order it.

Animats 2y ago

> Having the house broken open for months There's a lot to be said for not having too much work in progress. Sometimes it's better to bring in a whole crew and get the job done.

bluGill 2y ago
Or alternatively doing less at a time. Can you replace the vanity without doing the floor, then when that is done do the shower, then the toilet/floor. (in most bathrooms the toilet is the only think that needs to sit on the floor, the rest you can shim and then hide the seam in some trim). I try to break all my projects down into things I can do in a day - often not possible, but when it is I'm more likely to get them done.
- Animats 2y ago
  Then you paint the place several times. Or it looks partly done for a long time.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Paint is quick and easy. Not that I disagree with your point, but it isn't a big deal.

hippich 2y ago

I absolutely agree, but I am having hard time finding such a person... The one who show up and who will do things right... The thought of trying to find a person like that, are multiple failures, just makes it easier to do it myself, even if I will hate spending time on it.

kelnos 2y ago
I recommend asking around in your social circle of other homeowners. If you know someone who deals with houses a lot, like a realtor, ask them for recommendations. I got my handyman rec from my realtor, and he's fantastic.

psadauskas 2y ago

I disagree, and in particular your point about "frustration", I find the opposite to be true for me. If I hire someone to do something, and they do a bad job, I have to beg them to come out and fix it, if they even will at all. And they're the only one with the knowledge and experience and tools to do the repair, so I feel frustrated that I'm unable to resolve it, its going to be like that forever. If I do something myself, now I've learned how to do it, and buying any necessary tools and equipment to do it was probably cheaper than hiring someone to do it. And if I do a bad job, I console myself that I could fix it if I cared enough, even if I never get around to it. At some point it'll annoy me enough that I will fix it, or it won't and I won't care. Personally, I find this to be much better for my mental health.

lupire 2y ago
Even better, never fix anything, live in squalor, and be happy that you could have a better life if you worked harder.
- croo 2y ago
  I agree with the person you are responding to and your snarky remark bothers me to no end. No one will care more about your house and problems than you do so they will often do a more sloppy job and the only thing that saves their face is their experience of doing their job more often than you do. There's always more things that needs to be done than time you have. In practice you always need to prioritize between 1. what will you spend your time to learn and do it good 2.what will you spend your money to make others do it worse(coin flip, it may be good) 3. or not do it at all. The choice is not trivial.
kelnos 2y ago
> buying any necessary tools and equipment to do it was probably cheaper than hiring someone to do it This has really driven my decisions a lot. I've found that pretty much any set of tools I could need for common home repair costs less than 2 hours of labor that someone would charge me. Sure, my time acquiring these tools and using them isn't worthless, but I personally enjoy doing it and find that to have value in and of itself. (Certainly that's not true of everyone.) There are some cases where I just don't want to deal with it, though. For example, I needed a new railing put on my deck a few months ago. I know I'm not great at woodworking, and honing those skills doesn't really interest me all that much; someone else would do a much nicer job of it than I would. I didn't want to have to buy some more tools that I don't really have good storage space for. My compromise was to hire a handyman I trust to build the railing, but I decided I would stain it myself.

efsavage 2y ago

A good handyman is an incredible asset. I've had periods where I had one available, but they are very hard to find, and like most professions, hard to keep as someone else will often outbid you (or offer full time employement in these cases). I could keep one busy for weeks right now, if not longer... I too lean towards DIY but have had to learn to make the hard decision on projects. "Will I realistically get this done in O(days|weeks)?" "Do we actually have any weekends free in the next ~month?" This usually leaves enough low-pressure jobs for me to do on my own, while maintaining domestic harmony by paying someone to do the rest.

forgetfreeman 2y ago

Handyman here. I think maybe you just explained a thing that's confused and confounded me for decades now. That innate difference between myself and my clients that I never really grasped: I can live with screwing something up myself because I can always go back and get it right the 2nd time. I absolutely cannot abide paying someone else good money to produce anything other than stellar results, and I loathe paying anyone to do anything I know I can do myself.

subsubzero 2y ago

Its so funny I feel the exact opposite. I love doing work around the house as it saves money and also brings me immense satisfaction. I work in software so all of my toil is on ethereal products, if the company goes under all of my work is lost for eternity(well unless the internet archive keeps it alive). But with upkeep on a house I am making my physical environment better and the effects will survive a long time. I replaced all 100 or so electrical outlets in my house and when I was doing this I was thinking of who initially installed these and in the future, perhaps in 30-40 years(or longer!) who will update my work. As for yardwork I could easily hire a gardner but I enjoy being outside and physical activity and sunlight(vitamin D) are great for you. Plus you save money and have the satisfaction that you made your physical world a better more attractive space. That being said a house that needs alot of upkeep as everything is extremely out of date would be(for me) very stressful and time consuming, so everything is relative.

goldpizza44 2y ago

I am super fortunate that my spouse likes to do the home projects as well. She is artistic, and I am mechanical. We solve problems together....when I don't know how to do something electrical or plumbing, and she has no idea at all, I can explain to her what the problem is, and either she gets it enough to point me in the right direction or in the process of explaining the problem I get the solution. When she is agonizing over some color scheme (which in most cases doesn't interest me much) she will explain what she wants to achieve, and I can ask "stupid" questions that lead her to the answer...or in the odd case I make a suggestion and the lightbulb pops on. It seems to me the mental health professionals do the same thing. Together we have tackled installing over a 1000 sqft of hardwood flooring, removing popcorn ceilings (yuk), re-engineering built in cabinetry to accommodate an 82" TV, gutting and rebuilding 3 bathrooms, re-upholstering a livingroom suite that has no right angles (all curves), running a 90ft PEX pipe through a ceiling crawl space after receive a quote from a plumber for $8000 (took a day of our time). The problem I have with "professionals" is that they all tell me a different story of what I need, and the "other guy" is always dead wrong. I need a new roof and am getting quotes from multiple vendors....Just today I had calls with a couple of the vendors and they told me opposite stories of what "I need". One told me I need to replace all the wall flashings (which is very difficult and expensive given the siding must come off), and the other said don't touch it if its not leaking. Who to believe? At the end of each project we are amazed at our accomplishment (note youtube helps). It certainly took 5x longer than a professional might take, but the end result was unique, we could change direction mid project, and in the end I know it is not crap work from some guy who left a leak in the wall. I believe the elation we achieved (and compliments from the neighbors), far exceeds the sweat equity that we put into the projects.

mauvehaus 2y ago

> If someone else makes a mistake, even if I'm paying them, I can for whatever reason tolerate that with less frustration than when I screw up myself. By contrast, I take the position that I can fuck up just about anything myself for free, and if I'm paying somebody, they'd better do it right and do it right the first time.