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Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Longevity: not more than anything else, a p

Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though Improved air quality: The petrol derivate foam that leaves a god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ? rock or better sheep wool is much better in that regard In the end of the day people do whatever they want but I'd rather build smaller and spend more on rockwool than have extra space and nasty ass foam all around my house

xnx 2y ago
> Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to Definitely a risk with any type of improperly installed moisture barrier (like ZIP sheathing). > Structural strength: yeahhhh... no It would take me some time to find more formal studies, but there are a lot of videos on YouTube that demonstrate the addeded strength. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMHJpSHKJM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMHJpSHKJM > god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ? Everything I've read indicates that any offgassing/odor is gone in 24 hours or less. > In the end of the day people do whatever they want Agreed. To each their own. Closed cell spray foam also works well in conjunction with rockwool.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Nit: the usual term is "vapor barrier".
  - rascul 2y ago
    Moisture barriers and vapor barriers are different things that are often confused. And sometimes a thing is both.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      Can spray-foam insulation be a moisture barrier, though? My guess is no, it cannot.
      - rascul 2y ago
        Yes. That's the problem.
- lm28469 2y ago
  > It would take me some time to find more formal studies No one will study the strength of insulation foam because it will never be authorised as a structural material. > Everything I've read indicates that any offgassing/odor is gone in 24 hours or less. Everything you read comes from manufacturers or bloggers/influencers paid by manufacturers. On construction forums you'll find plenty of people complaining of weird smells months/years down the line. Again, people do whatever they want with their houses and health, personally I'm not touching this shit with a ten foot pole given the alternatives https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/fumes-from-closed-open-cell-foam-months-later https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/fumes-from-clo... https://www.sprayfoammagazine.com/forum/topic/spray-foam-odor-3-months-after-installation/2137 https://www.sprayfoammagazine.com/forum/topic/spray-foam-odo... https://www.reddit.com/r/Insulation/comments/1bsm8db/faint_smell_from_spray_foamed_attic_18_months/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Insulation/comments/1bsm8db/faint_s... https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/bfhpmt/open_cell_spray_foam_still_off_gassing_2_years/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/bfhpmt/ope...
CyberDildonics 2y ago
Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to This is more applicable to fiberglass. How does humidity somehow get past the foam while being kept there? I never see any evidence for these claims. Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Foam adds rigidity to wooden structures. This is actually very commonly brought up and noticed where houses creak far less on top of the sounds proofing. Saying "yeahh.. no" is not evidence of anything. Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though Definitely more than fiberglass, since fiberglass can sag and flatten over time. offgas for years is good for air quality This is not typical and happens when it is installed poorly.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > How does humidity somehow get past the foam while being kept there? I never see any evidence for these claims. Open cell: * https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights/bsi-126-dirty-harry-does-insulation https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insig... * https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights-newsletters/bsi-016-ping-pong-water-and-chemical-engineer https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insig...
throw0101d 2y ago
> Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to So properly ventilate, which you want/need to do anyway. Anything that is airtight can trap things, and you generally want to to be as airtight. Unless you want to start getting into design details that are airtight but vapour open. > Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Yes, it does (at least per UFlorida researchers): * https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/insulation/the-structural-properties-of-foam_o https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/insulation/the-structural-p...
- kazinator 2y ago
  If you ventilate, you're bringing in hot air in the summer or cold air in the winter; it completely defeats the purpose of the insulation.
  - throw0101d 2y ago
    > If you ventilate, you're bringing in hot air in the summer or cold air in the winter; it completely defeats the purpose of the insulation. ERV. Build tight, ventilate right. — Perera and Parkins; https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/airbase_5952.pdf https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/airbase_5952.pdf , https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/build-tight-ventilate-right/ https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/build-tight-ventilate...
    - kazinator 2y ago
      I don't see the point of building tight, if you're going to have massive holes in the building, through which you force tons of air (which you should). Would you call a jar airtight if you never close the lid? In multi-tenant dwellings, building tight can help keep people's smells to themselves. That's about it. Like if you have pressurized air in the hallway, keeping the common area fresh, if the apartment units are not built tight, smells can go from one to the other sideways, possibly forced by that very same pressure. The main reason people build tight is to save on heating and cooling bills, or "save the planet". And mainly how that works is by not ventilating. Ventilating forces out all that hot or cool air that you paid for, so you have to heat or cool the replacement air. It's basically greed or ideology over health.

xnx 2y ago

> Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to Definitely a risk with any type of improperly installed moisture barrier (like ZIP sheathing). > Structural strength: yeahhhh... no It would take me some time to find more formal studies, but there are a lot of videos on YouTube that demonstrate the addeded strength. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMHJpSHKJM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMHJpSHKJM > god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ? Everything I've read indicates that any offgassing/odor is gone in 24 hours or less. > In the end of the day people do whatever they want Agreed. To each their own. Closed cell spray foam also works well in conjunction with rockwool.

hollerith 2y ago
Nit: the usual term is "vapor barrier".
- rascul 2y ago
  Moisture barriers and vapor barriers are different things that are often confused. And sometimes a thing is both.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    Can spray-foam insulation be a moisture barrier, though? My guess is no, it cannot.
    - rascul 2y ago
      Yes. That's the problem.
lm28469 2y ago
> It would take me some time to find more formal studies No one will study the strength of insulation foam because it will never be authorised as a structural material. > Everything I've read indicates that any offgassing/odor is gone in 24 hours or less. Everything you read comes from manufacturers or bloggers/influencers paid by manufacturers. On construction forums you'll find plenty of people complaining of weird smells months/years down the line. Again, people do whatever they want with their houses and health, personally I'm not touching this shit with a ten foot pole given the alternatives https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/fumes-from-closed-open-cell-foam-months-later https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/fumes-from-clo... https://www.sprayfoammagazine.com/forum/topic/spray-foam-odor-3-months-after-installation/2137 https://www.sprayfoammagazine.com/forum/topic/spray-foam-odo... https://www.reddit.com/r/Insulation/comments/1bsm8db/faint_smell_from_spray_foamed_attic_18_months/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Insulation/comments/1bsm8db/faint_s... https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/bfhpmt/open_cell_spray_foam_still_off_gassing_2_years/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/bfhpmt/ope...

CyberDildonics 2y ago

Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to This is more applicable to fiberglass. How does humidity somehow get past the foam while being kept there? I never see any evidence for these claims. Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Foam adds rigidity to wooden structures. This is actually very commonly brought up and noticed where houses creak far less on top of the sounds proofing. Saying "yeahh.. no" is not evidence of anything. Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though Definitely more than fiberglass, since fiberglass can sag and flatten over time. offgas for years is good for air quality This is not typical and happens when it is installed poorly.

throw0101d 2y ago
> How does humidity somehow get past the foam while being kept there? I never see any evidence for these claims. Open cell: * https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights/bsi-126-dirty-harry-does-insulation https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insig... * https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights-newsletters/bsi-016-ping-pong-water-and-chemical-engineer https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insig...

throw0101d 2y ago

> Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to So properly ventilate, which you want/need to do anyway. Anything that is airtight can trap things, and you generally want to to be as airtight. Unless you want to start getting into design details that are airtight but vapour open. > Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Yes, it does (at least per UFlorida researchers): * https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/insulation/the-structural-properties-of-foam_o https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/insulation/the-structural-p...

kazinator 2y ago
If you ventilate, you're bringing in hot air in the summer or cold air in the winter; it completely defeats the purpose of the insulation.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > If you ventilate, you're bringing in hot air in the summer or cold air in the winter; it completely defeats the purpose of the insulation. ERV. Build tight, ventilate right. — Perera and Parkins; https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/airbase_5952.pdf https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/airbase_5952.pdf , https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/build-tight-ventilate-right/ https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/build-tight-ventilate...
  - kazinator 2y ago
    I don't see the point of building tight, if you're going to have massive holes in the building, through which you force tons of air (which you should). Would you call a jar airtight if you never close the lid? In multi-tenant dwellings, building tight can help keep people's smells to themselves. That's about it. Like if you have pressurized air in the hallway, keeping the common area fresh, if the apartment units are not built tight, smells can go from one to the other sideways, possibly forced by that very same pressure. The main reason people build tight is to save on heating and cooling bills, or "save the planet". And mainly how that works is by not ventilating. Ventilating forces out all that hot or cool air that you paid for, so you have to heat or cool the replacement air. It's basically greed or ideology over health.