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> Most people don't believe tarot cards are really some magical thing I think a lot of people have trouble with the idea that despite astrology not being accur

> Most people don't believe tarot cards are really some magical thing I think a lot of people have trouble with the idea that despite astrology not being accurate or grounded in science, it can still be useful for some of the people some of the time.

TuringTest 2y ago
> despite astrology not being accurate or grounded in science, it can still be useful for some of the people some of the time. That's what an art form does. The problem with astrology is that it's framed as a science giving answers to questions, not as an artistic performance giving insight into life patterns. It as painful as seeing people watch wrestling believing it is a real competitive sport.
- criddell 2y ago
  Astrologers can definitely cross the line from being performers to being fraudsters. I wouldn't compare it with wrestling though. Nobody above the age of 12 really believes wrestling is an unscripted sport. It's just kayfabe. Did The Undertaker really bury people alive? He absolutely did. Did Mark Calaway (the wrestler's actual name) bury people alive? Of course not. Nobody called 911 to report a murder after watching The Undertaker perform.
andrewla 2y ago
I am one of those people that have trouble with this idea. Can you elaborate the ways that it is useful for some people? The best I can steelman is the general idea that human minds have a "religion-shaped hole" in our understanding of our environment, and astrology fills that hole in a mostly-harmless way. I don't love this perspective, though, and I'm wondering if you have something else in mind.
- Mathnerd314 2y ago
  Well, putting aside for now whether it is religion-shaped, let's assume that there is a hole and that filling the hole is like writing an essay. When I'm writing an essay. I can stare at the blank screen and start writing, or I can generate a draft essay with ChatGPT and start from there. For me I've found ChatGPT is a better starting point. It is kind of the same thing with astrology - let's say the prompt is defining your personality when you're making a dating profile. You might start from scratch, but a lot of people don't know their personality. Whereas, you start from an astrological sign, you can say "I'm a Capricorn but feisty" or whatever. Now obviously based on this study and the previous, the signs are meaningless. But the personality descriptions people build around them are not - even if you think Capricorn or whatever is meaningless, you can ask someone who says they're such a sign what they think the traits of a Capricorn are, and they will most likely be giving you true descriptions of themselves. There is actually a known effect in psychology where if you ask someone (A) to fill out a personality quiz as though they were a friend (B) filling out the survey while they (B) answer as though they were the person (A), sort of a double-remove perspective thing, then the answers more accurately reflect one's true personality and perceptions. I wonder if perhaps astrology fills a similar role here of allowing one to look at oneself from the outside.

TuringTest 2y ago

> despite astrology not being accurate or grounded in science, it can still be useful for some of the people some of the time. That's what an art form does. The problem with astrology is that it's framed as a science giving answers to questions, not as an artistic performance giving insight into life patterns. It as painful as seeing people watch wrestling believing it is a real competitive sport.

criddell 2y ago
Astrologers can definitely cross the line from being performers to being fraudsters. I wouldn't compare it with wrestling though. Nobody above the age of 12 really believes wrestling is an unscripted sport. It's just kayfabe. Did The Undertaker really bury people alive? He absolutely did. Did Mark Calaway (the wrestler's actual name) bury people alive? Of course not. Nobody called 911 to report a murder after watching The Undertaker perform.

andrewla 2y ago

I am one of those people that have trouble with this idea. Can you elaborate the ways that it is useful for some people? The best I can steelman is the general idea that human minds have a "religion-shaped hole" in our understanding of our environment, and astrology fills that hole in a mostly-harmless way. I don't love this perspective, though, and I'm wondering if you have something else in mind.

Mathnerd314 2y ago
Well, putting aside for now whether it is religion-shaped, let's assume that there is a hole and that filling the hole is like writing an essay. When I'm writing an essay. I can stare at the blank screen and start writing, or I can generate a draft essay with ChatGPT and start from there. For me I've found ChatGPT is a better starting point. It is kind of the same thing with astrology - let's say the prompt is defining your personality when you're making a dating profile. You might start from scratch, but a lot of people don't know their personality. Whereas, you start from an astrological sign, you can say "I'm a Capricorn but feisty" or whatever. Now obviously based on this study and the previous, the signs are meaningless. But the personality descriptions people build around them are not - even if you think Capricorn or whatever is meaningless, you can ask someone who says they're such a sign what they think the traits of a Capricorn are, and they will most likely be giving you true descriptions of themselves. There is actually a known effect in psychology where if you ask someone (A) to fill out a personality quiz as though they were a friend (B) filling out the survey while they (B) answer as though they were the person (A), sort of a double-remove perspective thing, then the answers more accurately reflect one's true personality and perceptions. I wonder if perhaps astrology fills a similar role here of allowing one to look at oneself from the outside.