5 ms·

Why do tech savvy people still use a browser from an ad company?

johnnyanmac 2y ago
Same as non-tech saavy. They may try to get around it, but convinience still trumps customizability and control for many. That's why there's still a signifigant IOS/Mac OS even among techies.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Chrome isn’t installed by default, what convenience are you talking about? And iOS/Mac analogy isn’t holding here, because Firefox is a drop in replacement for Chrome. Not in a sense select either customization or convenience, but select both.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Maybe it changed recently, but using Google on non-chrome will pester you about being chrome. So it's not exactly hidden either. >what convenience are you talking about? Largest extension support, built in integrations for stuff like casting, translation, image search, etc. It also just seems to have less quirks than Firefox. Not anything game breaking, but fiddling with video calls or tab groups or a half dozen more small features is a lot more intuitive on chrome than Firefox. Even if some of it is just outright incompetence (or malice), like abusing user agents. It's no single thing, but they all add up. >And iOS/Mac analogy isn’t holding here, because Firefox is a drop in replacement for Chrome. In the superficial sense, sure. If you just need to go to 10 websites and need maybe 3 key extentions you'll be fine. Power users will see many subtle differences overtime. You can technically use both, but typically you will spend most time on a selected browser of choice.
- worksonmine 2y ago
  How is Chrome more convenient than Firefox?
allkindsof 2y ago
Better development tools than Firefox. In terms of usability and performance.
- yesbut 2y ago
  voluntary subjugation
- trilbyglens 2y ago
  This isnt really true anymore. Firefox has caught up in devtools, and has superior tools when it comes to animation debugging. Performance also isn't worse than chrome, in fact I've found that FF uses a lot less memory than chrome does. The only time I open chrome is to use an occasional WebApp that needs the Bluetooth API or something like that.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Better how?
- Timshel 2y ago
  Used to run chrome for it too. Never understood why it should impact which browser you use for everything else ...
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  I don't think that is true today. At first Firefox had better tools but developers didn't do the smart thing and developed for Chrome. At the time it was indeed faster, not really an issue today either. Also the writing was on the wall for quite some time.
  - jauntywundrkind 2y ago
    On my 2017 Ultrabook with only 4gb of ram, Firefox stalls repeatedly & has long stretches of being entirely unresponsive after half a dozen tabs, and gets worse from there. I have some delay where a navigation might be delayed some, but Chrome doesn't ever lose input and generally manages to keep going. Even on a desktop with 64GB ram, Firefox gets slow over time & needs to be restarted when I have a significant number of tabs open. Tab auto-suspend extensions generally "fix" the problem, but it's been frustrating that whatever the on-page performance is in Firefox, the app itself feels so prone to bouts of unresponsiveness.
yosito 2y ago
Because our PMs use it, and that's the browser that they see our work in, so it's just less effort on our part if we're building in that browser too.
- Timshel 2y ago
  Quite logical to use chrome for testing and probably without an ad blocker. But why are you using the same for browsing ?
Voultapher 2y ago
If Firefox market share would drop to sub 1%, Google would face some difficult to dissuade monopoly allegations. I believe it's one of the reasons Mozilla gets founded by Google, they get to point to an alternative. Then again without Mozilla we might now live in a WEI world, which I certainly would prefer not to.
- 0x000042 2y ago
  WEI world?
  - Voultapher 2y ago
    Web Environment Integrity aka. WEI. I recommend this article that gives a holistic explanation on the context that proposal sits in: https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/#kitt-is-a-demon https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/#kitt-is-a-de...
hyperman1 2y ago
This. It was basically us killing internet explorer by giving first firefox and later chrome to friends and family. We made sure 'our' sites were compatible. A zillion insects can swallow an elephant.
Dalewyn 2y ago
Because the other browsers are all still Chrome or mandated by The One Apple Way(tm). Except for that one browser which isn't, we don't use that because they go out of their way to tell tech savvy people to screw off.
- Timshel 2y ago
  I'm absolutly disappointed in Mozilla leadership. But I just don't understand how it could even compare to Google ...
zihotki 2y ago
Are you suggesting Firefox? If so, that sounds strange given Mozilla acquired ads business in the beginning of this year.
- theshrike79 2y ago
  You can't both-sides this. Any ad business Mozilla can "acquire" is a percentage of a fraction of the global juggernaut that is Google.
- Timshel 2y ago
  On one side you have Mozilla with it's experiments that can be disabled on the other Google. Yeah sure it's the same ...
- kuschkufan 2y ago
  Call me when Firefox stops supporting manifest v2 and thus crippling ad blockers. Until then I use Firefox and will be very content doing so, recommending it to everyone who asks as well.
lippihom 2y ago
YouTube on Firefox is completely bricked, so it forces Chrome usage.
- 2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
  maybe there is problem with your setup? because i do use youtube on firefox without a problem (+ublock and +vpn) and i don't see advertisement. though, of course my main gate to youtube is FreeTube.
  - LinuxBender 2y ago
    Probably some form of A/B testing. I used to say the same thing, but specific channels and specific live-streams will now die every 30 seconds using FF+uBlock. I found they appear to do testing on channels they do not like such as those that complain about YT's policy and other channels for reasons I shall not speak of here.
  - lippihom 2y ago
    I also use ublock + vpn. Do a quick Google search for "reddit + firefox + youtube not working", you'll see that strings are getting posted much more frequently over the past six months.
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  I use youtube over 30 times a day in firefox the passed year without issue.
- pirates 2y ago
  youtube on firefox works just fine for me. can you describe this means it’s bricked?
  - lippihom 2y ago
    Videos play for 10 seconds then stop loading, forced reduced quality, and just generally buggy in several different ways. Many Reddit strings with tons of other people having similar issues. - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1dgodfn/youtube_on_firefox_has_gone_from_broken_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1dgodfn/youtube_on... - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1cjbsmj/youtube_on_firefox_seems_to_be_getting_much_worse/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1cjbsmj/youtube_on... - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1bsc0i4/youtube_not_working_on_firefox_2024_tried/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1bsc0i4/youtube_no...
tim333 2y ago
It works well. I've got at least four browsers installed on the macbook and use the one that works best and don't really give any consideration to stuff like whether the company does ads. I've got chrome and firefox with ublock installed. If chrome gets ad plastered I'll probably go firefox more. I presently get forced back to chrome if there's a foreign language comment on X/itter. I haven't figured how to translate those on ff.
gexla 2y ago
Some web apps are optimized for Chrome or even require Chrome. Though most of the apps I use don't have ads. I use Firefox for general browsing, and occasionally Chrome for development or for using trusted apps.
Xen9 2y ago
Obviously because there is no immediate punishment from it. Eventually your NSA clone will replicate your behaviour exactly, but before that you don't get punished and make the mistake of continuing the behaviour.

Same as non-tech saavy. They may try to get around it, but convinience still trumps customizability and control for many. That's why there's still a signifigant IOS/Mac OS even among techies.

wiseowise 2y ago
Chrome isn’t installed by default, what convenience are you talking about? And iOS/Mac analogy isn’t holding here, because Firefox is a drop in replacement for Chrome. Not in a sense select either customization or convenience, but select both.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Maybe it changed recently, but using Google on non-chrome will pester you about being chrome. So it's not exactly hidden either. >what convenience are you talking about? Largest extension support, built in integrations for stuff like casting, translation, image search, etc. It also just seems to have less quirks than Firefox. Not anything game breaking, but fiddling with video calls or tab groups or a half dozen more small features is a lot more intuitive on chrome than Firefox. Even if some of it is just outright incompetence (or malice), like abusing user agents. It's no single thing, but they all add up. >And iOS/Mac analogy isn’t holding here, because Firefox is a drop in replacement for Chrome. In the superficial sense, sure. If you just need to go to 10 websites and need maybe 3 key extentions you'll be fine. Power users will see many subtle differences overtime. You can technically use both, but typically you will spend most time on a selected browser of choice.
worksonmine 2y ago
How is Chrome more convenient than Firefox?

allkindsof 2y ago

Better development tools than Firefox. In terms of usability and performance.

yesbut 2y ago
voluntary subjugation
trilbyglens 2y ago
This isnt really true anymore. Firefox has caught up in devtools, and has superior tools when it comes to animation debugging. Performance also isn't worse than chrome, in fact I've found that FF uses a lot less memory than chrome does. The only time I open chrome is to use an occasional WebApp that needs the Bluetooth API or something like that.
wiseowise 2y ago
Better how?
Timshel 2y ago
Used to run chrome for it too. Never understood why it should impact which browser you use for everything else ...
raxxorraxor 2y ago
I don't think that is true today. At first Firefox had better tools but developers didn't do the smart thing and developed for Chrome. At the time it was indeed faster, not really an issue today either. Also the writing was on the wall for quite some time.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  On my 2017 Ultrabook with only 4gb of ram, Firefox stalls repeatedly & has long stretches of being entirely unresponsive after half a dozen tabs, and gets worse from there. I have some delay where a navigation might be delayed some, but Chrome doesn't ever lose input and generally manages to keep going. Even on a desktop with 64GB ram, Firefox gets slow over time & needs to be restarted when I have a significant number of tabs open. Tab auto-suspend extensions generally "fix" the problem, but it's been frustrating that whatever the on-page performance is in Firefox, the app itself feels so prone to bouts of unresponsiveness.

yosito 2y ago

Because our PMs use it, and that's the browser that they see our work in, so it's just less effort on our part if we're building in that browser too.

Timshel 2y ago
Quite logical to use chrome for testing and probably without an ad blocker. But why are you using the same for browsing ?

Voultapher 2y ago

If Firefox market share would drop to sub 1%, Google would face some difficult to dissuade monopoly allegations. I believe it's one of the reasons Mozilla gets founded by Google, they get to point to an alternative. Then again without Mozilla we might now live in a WEI world, which I certainly would prefer not to.

0x000042 2y ago
WEI world?
- Voultapher 2y ago
  Web Environment Integrity aka. WEI. I recommend this article that gives a holistic explanation on the context that proposal sits in: https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/#kitt-is-a-demon https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/#kitt-is-a-de...

hyperman1 2y ago

This. It was basically us killing internet explorer by giving first firefox and later chrome to friends and family. We made sure 'our' sites were compatible. A zillion insects can swallow an elephant.

Dalewyn 2y ago

Because the other browsers are all still Chrome or mandated by The One Apple Way(tm). Except for that one browser which isn't, we don't use that because they go out of their way to tell tech savvy people to screw off.

Timshel 2y ago
I'm absolutly disappointed in Mozilla leadership. But I just don't understand how it could even compare to Google ...

zihotki 2y ago

Are you suggesting Firefox? If so, that sounds strange given Mozilla acquired ads business in the beginning of this year.

theshrike79 2y ago
You can't both-sides this. Any ad business Mozilla can "acquire" is a percentage of a fraction of the global juggernaut that is Google.
Timshel 2y ago
On one side you have Mozilla with it's experiments that can be disabled on the other Google. Yeah sure it's the same ...
kuschkufan 2y ago
Call me when Firefox stops supporting manifest v2 and thus crippling ad blockers. Until then I use Firefox and will be very content doing so, recommending it to everyone who asks as well.

lippihom 2y ago

YouTube on Firefox is completely bricked, so it forces Chrome usage.

2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
maybe there is problem with your setup? because i do use youtube on firefox without a problem (+ublock and +vpn) and i don't see advertisement. though, of course my main gate to youtube is FreeTube.
- LinuxBender 2y ago
  Probably some form of A/B testing. I used to say the same thing, but specific channels and specific live-streams will now die every 30 seconds using FF+uBlock. I found they appear to do testing on channels they do not like such as those that complain about YT's policy and other channels for reasons I shall not speak of here.
- lippihom 2y ago
  I also use ublock + vpn. Do a quick Google search for "reddit + firefox + youtube not working", you'll see that strings are getting posted much more frequently over the past six months.
nickthegreek 2y ago
I use youtube over 30 times a day in firefox the passed year without issue.
pirates 2y ago
youtube on firefox works just fine for me. can you describe this means it’s bricked?
- lippihom 2y ago
  Videos play for 10 seconds then stop loading, forced reduced quality, and just generally buggy in several different ways. Many Reddit strings with tons of other people having similar issues. - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1dgodfn/youtube_on_firefox_has_gone_from_broken_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1dgodfn/youtube_on... - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1cjbsmj/youtube_on_firefox_seems_to_be_getting_much_worse/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1cjbsmj/youtube_on... - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1bsc0i4/youtube_not_working_on_firefox_2024_tried/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1bsc0i4/youtube_no...

tim333 2y ago

It works well. I've got at least four browsers installed on the macbook and use the one that works best and don't really give any consideration to stuff like whether the company does ads. I've got chrome and firefox with ublock installed. If chrome gets ad plastered I'll probably go firefox more. I presently get forced back to chrome if there's a foreign language comment on X/itter. I haven't figured how to translate those on ff.

gexla 2y ago

Some web apps are optimized for Chrome or even require Chrome. Though most of the apps I use don't have ads. I use Firefox for general browsing, and occasionally Chrome for development or for using trusted apps.

Xen9 2y ago

Obviously because there is no immediate punishment from it. Eventually your NSA clone will replicate your behaviour exactly, but before that you don't get punished and make the mistake of continuing the behaviour.