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Also the US' per capita consumption is still over 2x higher than China's. This also doesn't account for the fact that countries that produce more of the worlds

by culi 2y ago

Also the US' per capita consumption is still over 2x higher than China's. This also doesn't account for the fact that countries that produce more of the worlds goods through mining and/or agriculture are obviously gonna be inflated. Banana republics (which the US continues to uphold and profit from) are using a lot of energy "per capita" but all the wealth from that is stolen so it's senseless to assign that consumption to the nation exporting rather than the nation importing

cscurmudgeon 2y ago
> Banana republics (which the US continues to uphold and profit from) are using a lot of energy "per capita" but all the wealth from that is stolen so it's senseless to assign that consumption to the nation exporting rather than the nation importing Ten "facts" or so in that one statement. Would be great if you can cite any one with a modern reference. Which banana republic with high per capita is US upholding and profiting from? Who is stealing their wealth? Why is that country a banana republic? US per capita is falling while China's is rising. https://www.iea.org/reports/co2-emissions-in-2023/the-changing-landscape-of-global-emissions#:~:text=China's%20per%20capita%20emissions%20exceeded,those%20of%20the%20United%20States https://www.iea.org/reports/co2-emissions-in-2023/the-changi....
- berdario 2y ago
  > US per capita is falling Keep in mind that electricity demand in the US is decreasing. If you reduce your manufacturing, of course it'll reflect positively on emissions. China demonstrates that it's possible to make CO2 emissions decrease even while energy demand keep growing (even if it doesn't grow as much as before) (As I linked in another comment in this page: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-falls-1-in-q2-2024-in-first-quarterly-drop-since-covid-19/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-falls-1-in-q... )
  - maxglute 2y ago
    Also giving export trends, have to factor in US increasingly large net exporter of fossil while PRC exporting increasingly renewables.
berdario 2y ago
It's only 2x if you consider the annual emissions, but the CO2 stays in the atmosphere. If you consider cumulative CO2 emissions, the US was around 3 times as high as China (with data up to 2015) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30196-0/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5... But with more up-to-date data, it could be even 8x https://goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/related-research/atmospheric-appropriation/ https://goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/related-research/atmospheric-ap... (Depending if you count cumulative emissions from 1960, earlier or later)
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  "Cumulative emissions" is the sunk cost fallacy masquerading as an excuse to defer blame onto dead people instead of doing something to address the active problem.
  - berdario 2y ago
    Except that the people arguing against considering cumulative emissions, are precisely those doing the least to address the problem

by culi 2y ago

cscurmudgeon 2y ago

> Banana republics (which the US continues to uphold and profit from) are using a lot of energy "per capita" but all the wealth from that is stolen so it's senseless to assign that consumption to the nation exporting rather than the nation importing Ten "facts" or so in that one statement. Would be great if you can cite any one with a modern reference. Which banana republic with high per capita is US upholding and profiting from? Who is stealing their wealth? Why is that country a banana republic? US per capita is falling while China's is rising. https://www.iea.org/reports/co2-emissions-in-2023/the-changing-landscape-of-global-emissions#:~:text=China's%20per%20capita%20emissions%20exceeded,those%20of%20the%20United%20States https://www.iea.org/reports/co2-emissions-in-2023/the-changi....

berdario 2y ago
> US per capita is falling Keep in mind that electricity demand in the US is decreasing. If you reduce your manufacturing, of course it'll reflect positively on emissions. China demonstrates that it's possible to make CO2 emissions decrease even while energy demand keep growing (even if it doesn't grow as much as before) (As I linked in another comment in this page: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-falls-1-in-q2-2024-in-first-quarterly-drop-since-covid-19/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-falls-1-in-q... )
- maxglute 2y ago
  Also giving export trends, have to factor in US increasingly large net exporter of fossil while PRC exporting increasingly renewables.

berdario 2y ago

It's only 2x if you consider the annual emissions, but the CO2 stays in the atmosphere. If you consider cumulative CO2 emissions, the US was around 3 times as high as China (with data up to 2015) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30196-0/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5... But with more up-to-date data, it could be even 8x https://goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/related-research/atmospheric-appropriation/ https://goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/related-research/atmospheric-ap... (Depending if you count cumulative emissions from 1960, earlier or later)

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
"Cumulative emissions" is the sunk cost fallacy masquerading as an excuse to defer blame onto dead people instead of doing something to address the active problem.
- berdario 2y ago
  Except that the people arguing against considering cumulative emissions, are precisely those doing the least to address the problem