3 ms·

Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad

Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad in comparison.

kevsim 2y ago
FWIW Ladybird is also built by people with actual browser engine experience
- peoplefromibiza 2y ago
  Ladybird was mostly developed by one person (Andreas Kilng) with no financing whatsoever ,Servo was mostly developed by a team who was being paid with Mozilla money.
  - webprofusion 2y ago
    That was true at the start, but it's most definitely funded development now and that's what will probably get them over the finish line. If the development work went into debating, specifying and expressing required behavior as a written spec more exactly (beyond w3c specs and towards the more pragmatic reality of what current browsers actually do) then very long term we can probably have engines that are AI built [or just more easily developed by humans] from a combination of the written specs and the set of tests they need to pass. Using AI for adversarial development (e.g. one group tries to break and hack it, the other group defends and refines) could get interesting and wasn't really an option before. Anything that's now available to reduce the human resource cost of development could make a big difference.
    - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
      > but it's most definitely funded development now Mozilla spent millions, Andreas got 2 hundreds thousand dollars to pay him and 2 other devs
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Andreas worked on webkit when he was at Apple.
    - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
      My cousin worked at Toyota, he obviously can't build a Toyota. Working on something is not the same thing as building the same thing from scratch on your own time and resources. Of all the people who worked at Google, none of them rebuilt Google, right? Also: Apple spent billions and employed several developers.
      - Hikikomori 2y ago
        So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? What counts as that kind of experience in your book?
        peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? Who said "no experience"? (except you, of course) I've said, an I repeat myself so maybe this time it'll work, Andreas had no money whatsoever, while Servo was developed inside Mozilla that poured millions of dollars on it and created a dedicated team to build it. It makes all the difference in the World, the actual experience on building a web browser is irrelevant, given the initial disparity of time, money and resources available. It makes all the difference between a random guy building a working twitter clone and Meta building a working twitter clone. The first one is an amazing accomplishment, the second one is a mehhh at best. Ladybird is a miracle compared to Servo.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        Ok? I dont see why thats relevant to what I said and what you initially responded to.
        2y ago
RandomThoughts3 2y ago
libweb was started in 2019. Anyway, I’m really sour that 90% of the discussion on a thread about the incredible project that is Servo are wasted on Ladybird.
- culi 2y ago
  Engage with the 10% then! You're only contributing to your perceived problem

Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad in comparison.

kevsim 2y ago

FWIW Ladybird is also built by people with actual browser engine experience

peoplefromibiza 2y ago
Ladybird was mostly developed by one person (Andreas Kilng) with no financing whatsoever ,Servo was mostly developed by a team who was being paid with Mozilla money.
- webprofusion 2y ago
  That was true at the start, but it's most definitely funded development now and that's what will probably get them over the finish line. If the development work went into debating, specifying and expressing required behavior as a written spec more exactly (beyond w3c specs and towards the more pragmatic reality of what current browsers actually do) then very long term we can probably have engines that are AI built [or just more easily developed by humans] from a combination of the written specs and the set of tests they need to pass. Using AI for adversarial development (e.g. one group tries to break and hack it, the other group defends and refines) could get interesting and wasn't really an option before. Anything that's now available to reduce the human resource cost of development could make a big difference.
  - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
    > but it's most definitely funded development now Mozilla spent millions, Andreas got 2 hundreds thousand dollars to pay him and 2 other devs
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Andreas worked on webkit when he was at Apple.
  - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
    My cousin worked at Toyota, he obviously can't build a Toyota. Working on something is not the same thing as building the same thing from scratch on your own time and resources. Of all the people who worked at Google, none of them rebuilt Google, right? Also: Apple spent billions and employed several developers.
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? What counts as that kind of experience in your book?
      - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? Who said "no experience"? (except you, of course) I've said, an I repeat myself so maybe this time it'll work, Andreas had no money whatsoever, while Servo was developed inside Mozilla that poured millions of dollars on it and created a dedicated team to build it. It makes all the difference in the World, the actual experience on building a web browser is irrelevant, given the initial disparity of time, money and resources available. It makes all the difference between a random guy building a working twitter clone and Meta building a working twitter clone. The first one is an amazing accomplishment, the second one is a mehhh at best. Ladybird is a miracle compared to Servo.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        Ok? I dont see why thats relevant to what I said and what you initially responded to.
        2y ago

RandomThoughts3 2y ago

libweb was started in 2019. Anyway, I’m really sour that 90% of the discussion on a thread about the incredible project that is Servo are wasted on Ladybird.

culi 2y ago
Engage with the 10% then! You're only contributing to your perceived problem