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> For example, the iphone 12 mini battery was a dog That's kinda the defining feature of a small phone. In contrast, my 15 pro max can last over a week because

by NavinF 2y ago

> For example, the iphone 12 mini battery was a dog That's kinda the defining feature of a small phone. In contrast, my 15 pro max can last over a week because it has a gigantic battery. FWIW there are other manufacturers out there and some of them make small phones. Hardly anyone buys them

Zak 2y ago
Who makes small phones? I searched on GSMArena for phones that are not larger than the Pixel 4A introduced in 2022 or later. There's exactly one: the iPhone SE. Note people calling for small phones will usually say the Pixel 4A doesn't really count as a small phone. https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&nHeightMax=145&nWidthMax=70&nThicknessMax=9 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&nHeightM...
- NavinF 2y ago
  That's fair, but I suspect there's a huge overlap between people who want small phones and people who don't upgrade their phone often. Doesn't make sense to release a new one often. If you go back to 2020, there are 9 options: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2020&nHeightMax=145&nWidthMax=70&nThicknessMax=9 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2020&nHeightM... That's an average of 2 small phones per year which is about what I'd expect.
  - Zak 2y ago
    If you'll indulge me moving the goalposts just a little, everything but the iPhones and the Pixel are extremely low-end devices with 1 or 2 GB RAM and no more than 32 GB storage. They do have SD slots, but many apps can't be installed to SD cards on Android, and modern apps are pretty bloated. I don't think most people would find these phones acceptable. I think there's probably room in the market for one company to make a decent midrange small phone. I don't think there's room for two because of exactly what you say: I'm in that market segment and I'm in no particular hurry to replace my Pixel 4A, at least as long as LineageOS supports it.
    - NavinF 2y ago
      Oh wow I didn't realize those phones had 32G storage. Yeah that's unusably small and SD cards are unusably slow. I guess there are 5/4=1.25 small phones per year. Fewer than I expected!
      - Zak 2y ago
        SD cards don't have to be slow, but I doubt ultra-budget phones support UHS-2. The bigger problem is that Android places a bunch of limits on apps installed on cards, so many apps don't allow installation to the card. The numbers for the past four years don't tell the whole story. Apple and Google are the only companies that introduced smaller phones that anybody would actually want. Google hasn't made one since 2020. Apple, since 2021. There's no indication the next iPhone SE will be as small as previous models.
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        >so many apps don't allow installation to the card Why is that a bad thing? When you see how unreliable SD cards are you wouldn't want apps installed on them either. SD cards are good only as a temporary storage medium, similarly to how you use a USB thumb drive, to carry data for point A to point B, that's it. You don't want them for long term storage of Important data like you use SSDs or HDDs. It's not just about the medium speed, it's about reliability. Yes, I know, premium SD cards with industrial reliability exists, but let's be real, no Average Joe ever buys them and instead just buy the cheap counterfit value SD cards that are on sale at Amazon or AliExpress or in best case at Walmart.
        Zak 2y ago
        I did not argue that it's a bad thing many apps can't be installed to an SD card, only that an SD slot isn't a sufficient mitigation for inadequate built-in storage because of it. I'll make that argument now though. I don't want an operating system telling me I can't do things because it might not be a good idea. Show a warning when something might not go well, but my risk tolerance regarding instability and data loss are mine to decide, not Google's and not some app developer's.
throw0101d 2y ago
>> For example, the iphone 12 mini battery was a dog > That's kinda the defining feature of a small phone. The two do not necessarily follow. If you made a phone that was small(er) in width and height, but slightly (1-2mm) bigger in depth, you could have a larger battery that was perhaps not "a dog".

by NavinF 2y ago

Zak 2y ago

Who makes small phones? I searched on GSMArena for phones that are not larger than the Pixel 4A introduced in 2022 or later. There's exactly one: the iPhone SE. Note people calling for small phones will usually say the Pixel 4A doesn't really count as a small phone. https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&nHeightMax=145&nWidthMax=70&nThicknessMax=9 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&nHeightM...

NavinF 2y ago
That's fair, but I suspect there's a huge overlap between people who want small phones and people who don't upgrade their phone often. Doesn't make sense to release a new one often. If you go back to 2020, there are 9 options: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2020&nHeightMax=145&nWidthMax=70&nThicknessMax=9 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2020&nHeightM... That's an average of 2 small phones per year which is about what I'd expect.
- Zak 2y ago
  If you'll indulge me moving the goalposts just a little, everything but the iPhones and the Pixel are extremely low-end devices with 1 or 2 GB RAM and no more than 32 GB storage. They do have SD slots, but many apps can't be installed to SD cards on Android, and modern apps are pretty bloated. I don't think most people would find these phones acceptable. I think there's probably room in the market for one company to make a decent midrange small phone. I don't think there's room for two because of exactly what you say: I'm in that market segment and I'm in no particular hurry to replace my Pixel 4A, at least as long as LineageOS supports it.
  - NavinF 2y ago
    Oh wow I didn't realize those phones had 32G storage. Yeah that's unusably small and SD cards are unusably slow. I guess there are 5/4=1.25 small phones per year. Fewer than I expected!
    - Zak 2y ago
      SD cards don't have to be slow, but I doubt ultra-budget phones support UHS-2. The bigger problem is that Android places a bunch of limits on apps installed on cards, so many apps don't allow installation to the card. The numbers for the past four years don't tell the whole story. Apple and Google are the only companies that introduced smaller phones that anybody would actually want. Google hasn't made one since 2020. Apple, since 2021. There's no indication the next iPhone SE will be as small as previous models.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >so many apps don't allow installation to the card Why is that a bad thing? When you see how unreliable SD cards are you wouldn't want apps installed on them either. SD cards are good only as a temporary storage medium, similarly to how you use a USB thumb drive, to carry data for point A to point B, that's it. You don't want them for long term storage of Important data like you use SSDs or HDDs. It's not just about the medium speed, it's about reliability. Yes, I know, premium SD cards with industrial reliability exists, but let's be real, no Average Joe ever buys them and instead just buy the cheap counterfit value SD cards that are on sale at Amazon or AliExpress or in best case at Walmart.
        Zak 2y ago
        I did not argue that it's a bad thing many apps can't be installed to an SD card, only that an SD slot isn't a sufficient mitigation for inadequate built-in storage because of it. I'll make that argument now though. I don't want an operating system telling me I can't do things because it might not be a good idea. Show a warning when something might not go well, but my risk tolerance regarding instability and data loss are mine to decide, not Google's and not some app developer's.

throw0101d 2y ago

>> For example, the iphone 12 mini battery was a dog > That's kinda the defining feature of a small phone. The two do not necessarily follow. If you made a phone that was small(er) in width and height, but slightly (1-2mm) bigger in depth, you could have a larger battery that was perhaps not "a dog".