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Yes, and that's why Chromium moved to allow Rust code (pretty much like they did for Android).

mrkramer 2y ago
They said some of the code can be rewritten in Rust but majority of the code cannot. Therefore they are stuck with C++ forever. Scary thing to think about.
- happyweasel 2y ago
  Also scary for Rust.
  - mrkramer 2y ago
    But Rust has a lot of momentum and positive energy and C++ is becoming something like C, the language everybody is scared and depressed to use.
    - niutech 2y ago
      Tell it to GTK folks.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- mdaniel 2y ago
  > but majority of the code cannot Do you have a citation for "cannot"? Maybe "prefer not because of non-functional requirements" but if it's a choice between a ~~webpage~~ ad vector loading 10 seconds slower versus the goddamn plague of RCEs coming out of Chrome, I know which one I'd take
  - mrkramer 2y ago
    >Over the past decades, in addition to large Java and Go memory-safe codebases, Google has developed and accumulated hundreds of millions of lines of C++ code that is in active use and under active, ongoing development. This very large existing codebase results in significant challenges for a transition to memory safety: We see no realistic path for an evolution of C++ into a language with rigorous memory safety guarantees that include temporal safety. A large-scale rewrite of all existing C++ code into a different, memory-safe language appears very difficult and will likely remain impractical[0]. [0] https://security.googleblog.com/2024/03/secure-by-design-googles-perspective-on.html#:~:text=Over%20the%20past,likely%20remain%20impractical https://security.googleblog.com/2024/03/secure-by-design-goo.... Long story short; they are stuck with millions of C++ LOC and they can't transition to Rust completely because of the enormous complexity of various gigantic codebases e.g. Android, Chrome or whatever they want to move to memory-safe language/s. They said they will try to write as much new native code in Rust as they can plus they will interop from C++ to Rust in order to reduce memory-safety bugs.
    - niutech 2y ago
      Can't they use a transpiler from C++ to Rust? E.g. https://llvm.org/devmtg/2023-05/slides/Posters/02-Preto-AutomaticTranslationCPlusPlus-Rust.pdf https://llvm.org/devmtg/2023-05/slides/Posters/02-Preto-Auto...
      - swiftcoder 2y ago
        Eventually, maybe. In the short term, the transpilers mostly translate from other languages into unsafe Rust - which is a helpful tool during porting, but there is still a mountain of work to refactor unsafe idioms into safe before you really reap the benefits.
        niutech 2y ago
        The presentation I linked talks about transpiling C++ to safe Rust.
        2y ago

They said some of the code can be rewritten in Rust but majority of the code cannot. Therefore they are stuck with C++ forever. Scary thing to think about.

happyweasel 2y ago
Also scary for Rust.
- mrkramer 2y ago
  But Rust has a lot of momentum and positive energy and C++ is becoming something like C, the language everybody is scared and depressed to use.
  - niutech 2y ago
    Tell it to GTK folks.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
mdaniel 2y ago
> but majority of the code cannot Do you have a citation for "cannot"? Maybe "prefer not because of non-functional requirements" but if it's a choice between a ~~webpage~~ ad vector loading 10 seconds slower versus the goddamn plague of RCEs coming out of Chrome, I know which one I'd take
- mrkramer 2y ago
  >Over the past decades, in addition to large Java and Go memory-safe codebases, Google has developed and accumulated hundreds of millions of lines of C++ code that is in active use and under active, ongoing development. This very large existing codebase results in significant challenges for a transition to memory safety: We see no realistic path for an evolution of C++ into a language with rigorous memory safety guarantees that include temporal safety. A large-scale rewrite of all existing C++ code into a different, memory-safe language appears very difficult and will likely remain impractical[0]. [0] https://security.googleblog.com/2024/03/secure-by-design-googles-perspective-on.html#:~:text=Over%20the%20past,likely%20remain%20impractical https://security.googleblog.com/2024/03/secure-by-design-goo.... Long story short; they are stuck with millions of C++ LOC and they can't transition to Rust completely because of the enormous complexity of various gigantic codebases e.g. Android, Chrome or whatever they want to move to memory-safe language/s. They said they will try to write as much new native code in Rust as they can plus they will interop from C++ to Rust in order to reduce memory-safety bugs.
  - niutech 2y ago
    Can't they use a transpiler from C++ to Rust? E.g. https://llvm.org/devmtg/2023-05/slides/Posters/02-Preto-AutomaticTranslationCPlusPlus-Rust.pdf https://llvm.org/devmtg/2023-05/slides/Posters/02-Preto-Auto...
    - swiftcoder 2y ago
      Eventually, maybe. In the short term, the transpilers mostly translate from other languages into unsafe Rust - which is a helpful tool during porting, but there is still a mountain of work to refactor unsafe idioms into safe before you really reap the benefits.
      - niutech 2y ago
        The presentation I linked talks about transpiling C++ to safe Rust.
        2y ago