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Could this be made out of a large number of starships that land on the moon and have a magnet payload? Would require something on the order of 1000 starships 50

Could this be made out of a large number of starships that land on the moon and have a magnet payload? Would require something on the order of 1000 starships 50 meters tall but only about 100 starships 100 meters tall. Perhaps an existing starship with a payload that extends a magnet another 50 meters higher after landing. Has Musk already thought about this? Correction - would require about 500 starships 100 meters tall. ChatGpt 4o mini is even worse than me at this line of sight math! Taller towers could be built to extend upwards out of a starship payload especially if guywires are used for stability. Magnets would require shielding from the Sun and reflections from the lunar surface similar to James Webb but far less demanding to achieve a temperature suitable for superconducting magnets. Obviously solar power with batteries to enable lunar nighttime operation. How many magnets are there in the LHC? How exactly circular or not does it need to be?

dave333 2y ago
Next thought is to build it in space where there can be unlimited expansion of the ring diameter. Problem would be focusing the beam by aiming many freely floating magnets. Would require some form of electronic beam aiming that can correct for motion of the magnets. My EM theory is too rusty (50 years since I got a C in the course) to figure out what angle a proton beam can be bent by one magnet at these energies and so how many magnets would be required.
- westurner 2y ago
  NotebookLLM is designed for this math. First thoughts without reading the paper: there's too much noise and the moon is hollow (*), so even if you could assemble it [a particle collider] by bootstrapping with solar and thermoelectric and moon dirt and self-replicating robots, the rare earth payload cost is probably a primary cost driver barring new methods for making magnets from moon rock rare earths. Is the moon hollow? Lunar seismology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_seismology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_seismology : > NASA's Planetary Science Decadal Survey for 2012-2022 [12] lists a lunar geophysical network as a recommended New Frontiers mission. [...] > NASA awarded five DALI grants in 2024, including research on ground-penetrating radar and a magnometer system for determining properties of the lunar core. [14] Spellcheck says "magnometer" is not even a word. But how much radiation noise is there from solar and cosmic wind on the surface of the moon - given the moon's lack of magnetosphere and partially thus also its lack of atmosphere - or shielded by how many meters of moon; underground in dormant lava tubes or vents? > Structure of the Lunar Interior: The solid core has a radius of about 240 km and is surrounded by a much thinner liquid outer core with a thickness of about 90 km.[9] The partial melt layer sits above the liquid outer core and has a thickness of about 150 km. The mantle extends to within 45 ± 5 km of the lunar surface. What are the costs to drill out the underground collider ring at what depth and but first to assemble the moon-drilling unit(s) from local materials just and given energy (and thus on-the-moon production systems therefore)
  - dave333 2y ago
    Presumably only the collision area needs to be underground to minimize noise. The rest of the ring can be above the surface. Building things on the moon is hard especially materials much easier to ship them from Earth using Starships or a derivative. Can start with a small ring made from a few ships and build a bigger one and finally a great circle one. Actually only need 500 or so towers 100 meters high each supporting a magnet. Starship can deliver 100 metric tons to LEO so could deliver a significant fraction of that to the lunar surface. Maybe 25 Starships performing 25 lunar missions each would be enough assuming LEO refueling and payload transfer.

dave333 2y ago

Next thought is to build it in space where there can be unlimited expansion of the ring diameter. Problem would be focusing the beam by aiming many freely floating magnets. Would require some form of electronic beam aiming that can correct for motion of the magnets. My EM theory is too rusty (50 years since I got a C in the course) to figure out what angle a proton beam can be bent by one magnet at these energies and so how many magnets would be required.

westurner 2y ago
NotebookLLM is designed for this math. First thoughts without reading the paper: there's too much noise and the moon is hollow (*), so even if you could assemble it [a particle collider] by bootstrapping with solar and thermoelectric and moon dirt and self-replicating robots, the rare earth payload cost is probably a primary cost driver barring new methods for making magnets from moon rock rare earths. Is the moon hollow? Lunar seismology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_seismology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_seismology : > NASA's Planetary Science Decadal Survey for 2012-2022 [12] lists a lunar geophysical network as a recommended New Frontiers mission. [...] > NASA awarded five DALI grants in 2024, including research on ground-penetrating radar and a magnometer system for determining properties of the lunar core. [14] Spellcheck says "magnometer" is not even a word. But how much radiation noise is there from solar and cosmic wind on the surface of the moon - given the moon's lack of magnetosphere and partially thus also its lack of atmosphere - or shielded by how many meters of moon; underground in dormant lava tubes or vents? > Structure of the Lunar Interior: The solid core has a radius of about 240 km and is surrounded by a much thinner liquid outer core with a thickness of about 90 km.[9] The partial melt layer sits above the liquid outer core and has a thickness of about 150 km. The mantle extends to within 45 ± 5 km of the lunar surface. What are the costs to drill out the underground collider ring at what depth and but first to assemble the moon-drilling unit(s) from local materials just and given energy (and thus on-the-moon production systems therefore)
- dave333 2y ago
  Presumably only the collision area needs to be underground to minimize noise. The rest of the ring can be above the surface. Building things on the moon is hard especially materials much easier to ship them from Earth using Starships or a derivative. Can start with a small ring made from a few ships and build a bigger one and finally a great circle one. Actually only need 500 or so towers 100 meters high each supporting a magnet. Starship can deliver 100 metric tons to LEO so could deliver a significant fraction of that to the lunar surface. Maybe 25 Starships performing 25 lunar missions each would be enough assuming LEO refueling and payload transfer.