5 ms·

You can compare Servo and Ladybird results on wpt tests here: https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?p

You can compare Servo and Ladybird results on wpt tests here: https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladyb...

culi 2y ago
Oh thanks. Seems like Servo is way ahead of LadyBird
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad in comparison.
  - kevsim 2y ago
    FWIW Ladybird is also built by people with actual browser engine experience
    - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
      Ladybird was mostly developed by one person (Andreas Kilng) with no financing whatsoever ,Servo was mostly developed by a team who was being paid with Mozilla money.
      - webprofusion 2y ago
        That was true at the start, but it's most definitely funded development now and that's what will probably get them over the finish line. If the development work went into debating, specifying and expressing required behavior as a written spec more exactly (beyond w3c specs and towards the more pragmatic reality of what current browsers actually do) then very long term we can probably have engines that are AI built [or just more easily developed by humans] from a combination of the written specs and the set of tests they need to pass. Using AI for adversarial development (e.g. one group tries to break and hack it, the other group defends and refines) could get interesting and wasn't really an option before. Anything that's now available to reduce the human resource cost of development could make a big difference.
        peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > but it's most definitely funded development now Mozilla spent millions, Andreas got 2 hundreds thousand dollars to pay him and 2 other devs
      - Hikikomori 2y ago
        Andreas worked on webkit when he was at Apple.
        peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        My cousin worked at Toyota, he obviously can't build a Toyota. Working on something is not the same thing as building the same thing from scratch on your own time and resources. Of all the people who worked at Google, none of them rebuilt Google, right? Also: Apple spent billions and employed several developers.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? What counts as that kind of experience in your book?
        peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? Who said "no experience"? (except you, of course) I've said, an I repeat myself so maybe this time it'll work, Andreas had no money whatsoever, while Servo was developed inside Mozilla that poured millions of dollars on it and created a dedicated team to build it. It makes all the difference in the World, the actual experience on building a web browser is irrelevant, given the initial disparity of time, money and resources available. It makes all the difference between a random guy building a working twitter clone and Meta building a working twitter clone. The first one is an amazing accomplishment, the second one is a mehhh at best. Ladybird is a miracle compared to Servo.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        Ok? I dont see why thats relevant to what I said and what you initially responded to.
        2y ago
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    libweb was started in 2019. Anyway, I’m really sour that 90% of the discussion on a thread about the incredible project that is Servo are wasted on Ladybird.
    - culi 2y ago
      Engage with the 10% then! You're only contributing to your perceived problem
- mappu 2y ago
  It's hard to summarize like that since Ladybird is still ahead in many individual tests including important ones (e.g. acid3 at https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/acid/acid3/numbered-tests.html?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/acid/acid3/numbered-tests.ht...).
  - bbatha 2y ago
    acid3 isn't particularly important as it doesn't even match modern standards. Modern chrome and firefox only pass 97/100 tests.
    - bangaladore 2y ago
      Someone reading your comment might infer that Servo is passing 97 out of 100 tests, when in fact, they are passing 86 out of 100. I don't know enough about browsers to know how vital those tests are, but it is important to note that they are still a ways off of 97.
      - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        Sorry but there is absolutely nothing in the comment you are replying to which might imply that Servo is passing 97. That’s a complete straw man.
    - niutech 2y ago
      The web standards have changed since the introduction of Acid3. The updated Acid3 test is here: https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html and modern browsers should score 100/100.

You can compare Servo and Ladybird results on wpt tests here: https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladyb...

culi 2y ago

Oh thanks. Seems like Servo is way ahead of LadyBird

littlestymaar 2y ago
Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad in comparison.
- kevsim 2y ago
  FWIW Ladybird is also built by people with actual browser engine experience
  - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
    Ladybird was mostly developed by one person (Andreas Kilng) with no financing whatsoever ,Servo was mostly developed by a team who was being paid with Mozilla money.
    - webprofusion 2y ago
      That was true at the start, but it's most definitely funded development now and that's what will probably get them over the finish line. If the development work went into debating, specifying and expressing required behavior as a written spec more exactly (beyond w3c specs and towards the more pragmatic reality of what current browsers actually do) then very long term we can probably have engines that are AI built [or just more easily developed by humans] from a combination of the written specs and the set of tests they need to pass. Using AI for adversarial development (e.g. one group tries to break and hack it, the other group defends and refines) could get interesting and wasn't really an option before. Anything that's now available to reduce the human resource cost of development could make a big difference.
      - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > but it's most definitely funded development now Mozilla spent millions, Andreas got 2 hundreds thousand dollars to pay him and 2 other devs
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      Andreas worked on webkit when he was at Apple.
      - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        My cousin worked at Toyota, he obviously can't build a Toyota. Working on something is not the same thing as building the same thing from scratch on your own time and resources. Of all the people who worked at Google, none of them rebuilt Google, right? Also: Apple spent billions and employed several developers.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? What counts as that kind of experience in your book?
        peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > So Andreas working on webkit means he has no browser engine experience? Who said "no experience"? (except you, of course) I've said, an I repeat myself so maybe this time it'll work, Andreas had no money whatsoever, while Servo was developed inside Mozilla that poured millions of dollars on it and created a dedicated team to build it. It makes all the difference in the World, the actual experience on building a web browser is irrelevant, given the initial disparity of time, money and resources available. It makes all the difference between a random guy building a working twitter clone and Meta building a working twitter clone. The first one is an amazing accomplishment, the second one is a mehhh at best. Ladybird is a miracle compared to Servo.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        Ok? I dont see why thats relevant to what I said and what you initially responded to.
        2y ago
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  libweb was started in 2019. Anyway, I’m really sour that 90% of the discussion on a thread about the incredible project that is Servo are wasted on Ladybird.
  - culi 2y ago
    Engage with the 10% then! You're only contributing to your perceived problem
mappu 2y ago
It's hard to summarize like that since Ladybird is still ahead in many individual tests including important ones (e.g. acid3 at https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/acid/acid3/numbered-tests.html?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/acid/acid3/numbered-tests.ht...).
- bbatha 2y ago
  acid3 isn't particularly important as it doesn't even match modern standards. Modern chrome and firefox only pass 97/100 tests.
  - bangaladore 2y ago
    Someone reading your comment might infer that Servo is passing 97 out of 100 tests, when in fact, they are passing 86 out of 100. I don't know enough about browsers to know how vital those tests are, but it is important to note that they are still a ways off of 97.
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      Sorry but there is absolutely nothing in the comment you are replying to which might imply that Servo is passing 97. That’s a complete straw man.
  - niutech 2y ago
    The web standards have changed since the introduction of Acid3. The updated Acid3 test is here: https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html https://wpt.live/acid/acid3/test.html and modern browsers should score 100/100.