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Goes with my reply to OP [0]. I have a colleague that is a total waste of space. Never finished a project, never wanted to take on advice, always fought on real

Goes with my reply to OP [0]. I have a colleague that is a total waste of space. Never finished a project, never wanted to take on advice, always fought on really shady grounds, but he fought everything, almost like it was either his idea of what was on-point or nothing... But he was constantly talking, he was always talking, he is always talking, most of the time about things he doesn't have a clue about... and just a week ago, he got bumped... I don't get it... I honestly do not get what the fuck is wrong with this world. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41215788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41215788

jvanderbot 2y ago
You can provide a lot of value to an organization (or a leader) without finishing a single coding project. As an engineer I hate it, but I have worked for good directors and awful directors and usually the good directors do a ton of talking and bitching and moaning. But they also are fortune tellers and crystal balls and expert C-suite anthropologists that make the work valuable rather than just busy.
- pelagicAustral 2y ago
  Yeah, I mean, I get it... but, how the fuck is this the normal state of affairs?
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    It's not just normal, it's desirable. You do not want your director / C-suite guy reviewing pull requests, filing bugs, or being obsessed with code library choices. That's what you get when you endlessly promote your busy/productive code-loving IC types. You want someone who is a naturally fluent speaker, strongly outspoken, who holds strong opinions, and wants to focus on processes and long-term roadmaps and so on. All the stuff a dilligent IC disdains.
    - andrewflnr 2y ago
      That's all worthless if they don't actually have good ideas, though. And I don't believe someone who is all talk actually has good ideas. You have to be rooted in good practice.
      - jvanderbot 2y ago
        If you're free to define "all talk" as "not useful" then yeah - you've created a tautology. All I'm saying is some folks that are awful to work with side by side as technologists are super useful to an org in other places. One person's 'all talk' is another person's 'all walk'.
        andrewflnr 2y ago
        Do recall that the reference for "all talk" in this conversation was > never wanted to take on advice, always fought on really shady grounds, but he fought everything, almost like it was either his idea of what was on-point or nothing Yes, you can be productive through communication, but if that's the kind of "talk" you want in your C-suite then I don't want to work in any company where you have influence. It's almost like communicating effectively requires detailed knowledge of the real world, knowledge most often and most effectively gained by... doing things.

jvanderbot 2y ago

You can provide a lot of value to an organization (or a leader) without finishing a single coding project. As an engineer I hate it, but I have worked for good directors and awful directors and usually the good directors do a ton of talking and bitching and moaning. But they also are fortune tellers and crystal balls and expert C-suite anthropologists that make the work valuable rather than just busy.

pelagicAustral 2y ago
Yeah, I mean, I get it... but, how the fuck is this the normal state of affairs?
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  It's not just normal, it's desirable. You do not want your director / C-suite guy reviewing pull requests, filing bugs, or being obsessed with code library choices. That's what you get when you endlessly promote your busy/productive code-loving IC types. You want someone who is a naturally fluent speaker, strongly outspoken, who holds strong opinions, and wants to focus on processes and long-term roadmaps and so on. All the stuff a dilligent IC disdains.
  - andrewflnr 2y ago
    That's all worthless if they don't actually have good ideas, though. And I don't believe someone who is all talk actually has good ideas. You have to be rooted in good practice.
    - jvanderbot 2y ago
      If you're free to define "all talk" as "not useful" then yeah - you've created a tautology. All I'm saying is some folks that are awful to work with side by side as technologists are super useful to an org in other places. One person's 'all talk' is another person's 'all walk'.
      - andrewflnr 2y ago
        Do recall that the reference for "all talk" in this conversation was > never wanted to take on advice, always fought on really shady grounds, but he fought everything, almost like it was either his idea of what was on-point or nothing Yes, you can be productive through communication, but if that's the kind of "talk" you want in your C-suite then I don't want to work in any company where you have influence. It's almost like communicating effectively requires detailed knowledge of the real world, knowledge most often and most effectively gained by... doing things.