4 ms·

The Authoritarian Playbook (2022)

55 points by rzk 2y ago

squigz 2y ago
I'd be curious to hear why this is being downvoted/flagged. In the meantime, vouched. Edit: Bit interesting that even this comment is being downvoted, with few replies.
- ozr 2y ago
  Because it's Trump hysteria. It's nonsense.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - squigz 2y ago
    Would you care to elaborate a bit? It looks like you have to get quite a bit into the article before Trump is mentioned, and the article is clearly not just talking about America.
    - ozr 2y ago
      The context is critical. This was written in 2022, and every single example is bookended by 'look at how this happening in the US'. This sort of political rhetoric has a distinct smell that is very obvious.
  - ecocentrik 2y ago
    As far as I can see the biggest authoritarian conflict at play in the Americas right now is in Venezuela, not the US. Trump might model much of his behavior on Venezuelan dictators but he's currently out of power and unlikely to be elected this year. I'm more worried about 2028 when someone like DeSantis, who's policies and tendencies are already significantly more authoritarian, could be leading the Republican ticket. There is value in educating Americans on the benefits of Democracy and the cost of giving it up regardless of who the wannabe dictator is.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Because I get enough end-of-democracy content from just about everywhere else these days and I come here for something different. It's exhausting to have to read titles like this and filter it myself, and "flag" better communicates that I think this is not just something I'm uninterested in but also something I feel violates the guidelines and shouldn't have been posted in the first place. > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity. I see no evidence that discussion on this article will evolve to be better than discussion on most political submissions, so I see no reason for it to remain on the front page.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Most. > > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity. Personally, I don't really consider an article talking about threats to democratic societies as a political or ideological battle. I suppose I can see why some people would though. > I see no evidence that discussion on this article will evolve to be better than discussion on most political submissions, so I see no reason for it to remain on the front page. Several comments on this thread, and many discussions on many political posts in the past, seem to indicate that political discussions on this site are constructive. > It's exhausting to have to read titles like this and filter it myself As an aside, isn't it more exhausting to go and flag it then? (Leaving alone that reading an article title is, you know, not very difficult)
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Nah, flagging and hiding are just a button press away. Coming into the article and commenting on it in response to people wondering why it got flagged is harder, but I feel like I owe it to the rest of the community to explain that there are flaggers who aren't Trump fans and just have strong opinions about what should and shouldn't go on HN.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  There are quite a few accounts on HN that flag comments and articles that could be considered critical of Trump. They abuse the guidelines like "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle." as a censorship tool.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    I'll happily flag articles that are critical of Harris and Biden too, but they seem to get flagged to death long before I get to them. Based on what I've seen, I suspect it's more accurate to say that there are a few accounts that are consistent in flagging all political content, while a majority will only flag if they disagree with it. If you notice Trump-critical articles getting flagged more often that probably says more about your politics than the state of HN.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - squigz 2y ago
      > If you notice Trump-critical articles getting flagged more often that probably says more about your politics than the state of HN. How does this work? If more Trump-critical articles are being flagged... that's certainly saying something about the state of HN. I'm not sure what it indicates about my own politics?
      - lolinder 2y ago
        I didn't say more Trump-critical articles are flagged, I said if you (or rather, OP) notice them more. HN leans left, but not left enough that the Harris-critical articles don't get posted at all—you just don't have an emotional reaction to them getting flagged to death and so they don't register. I will say that Trump-critical articles definitely last longer and so you'll very likely see more of them before they disappear, which means you're likely to notice them disappear more regularly. That is part of the state of HN, so I'll grant you that—right-wing politics disappear faster than left-wing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  How do you vouch for a submission that is flagged but not dead? I can't see a way to do it.
  - squigz 2y ago
    I think you can only vouch a dead post/comment? I'm not entirely sure though.
201984 2y ago
(2022)
roenxi 2y ago
Ironically, I suspect the biggest threat to democracy would be a staunch refusal to admit that your political opponents are human beings and do, on a fair number of issues, have good points. Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line. I take heart in the US case that nearly 10 years into the Trump era the Democrats are being beaten back from "Nazi" to "Weird". My hope is that in another 5 years they'll retreat to "well we just don't agree with some of this".
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  > Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line. From my perspective, only one group wants to marginalize groups of people and roll back decades of social progress. For the people being unjustly targeted, it is becoming a fight to the death for them if they want to maintain their dignity, autonomy, and quality of life. Not to mention the whole electing a dictator thing. Kinda weird.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  Unironically, the republicans aren't shy of calling liberal opponents 'nazi' either. Do conservatives have any responsibility to also tone down their rhetoric? There was a time when the two parties had a very different dynamic and could, at times, work together when a given policy was in line with both. I think this degraded and then the tea-party conservatives broke it for good, opting for a much more confrontational style where democrats ceased being people with a different opinion and started being 'the enemy' with whom no compromise would be entertained. This trend continued, even strengthened into MAGA trumpism. Biden's bipartisan immigration bill for example, which had many components which conservatives wanted, was rejected because Trump thought it would be seen as 'a win' for 'the other side'. I can't think of an example where a bipartisan bill was rejected by the democrats for similar reasoning.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
draw_down 2y ago
[dead]
stonethrowaway 2y ago
Reading this with sincerity is near impossible. I sympathize with the people who complain that it takes a disproportionate amount of energy to refute nonsense. This page is full of just-so things we are supposed to take at face value and I can’t take it seriously. It’s written in a tragic comedy sort of way lacking self reflection of the situation. I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda piece.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  Reading this with sincerity is near impossible. I sympathize with the people who complain that it takes a disproportionate amount of energy to refute nonsense. This post is full of just-so things we are supposed to take at face value and I can’t take it seriously. It’s written in a tragic comedy sort of way lacking self reflection of the situation. I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda post.
xtiansimon 2y ago
Technically the website works well on my smaller iPhone screen. No glitches. Content is well organized. High level outline, lists authors who influence their work. Sidebar for Journalists reveals the community this is written for. Since it is written in 2022, I wonder if the publisher still believes the work is accurate.
polotics 2y ago
[flagged]
tharmas 2y ago
Isn't the real sad truth that there is very little difference between the Democrats and the Republicans when it comes to economic policy? Sure theres differences on social policy eg Gender rights, abortion etc. Both Parties are captured by the Donor class.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  The parties follow what the voters support. If you want unpopular economic policy to have a party we need third parties to be relevant. There’s an economically progressive group in the house but they don’t have much support and in fact some of their members are defecting as they realize the stance isn’t politically relevant.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    Change ur first sentence from voters to Donors and i would agree with u. Govt funded medical care? That doesn't have public support?

55 points by rzk 2y ago

I'd be curious to hear why this is being downvoted/flagged. In the meantime, vouched. Edit: Bit interesting that even this comment is being downvoted, with few replies.

ozr 2y ago
Because it's Trump hysteria. It's nonsense.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- squigz 2y ago
  Would you care to elaborate a bit? It looks like you have to get quite a bit into the article before Trump is mentioned, and the article is clearly not just talking about America.
  - ozr 2y ago
    The context is critical. This was written in 2022, and every single example is bookended by 'look at how this happening in the US'. This sort of political rhetoric has a distinct smell that is very obvious.
- ecocentrik 2y ago
  As far as I can see the biggest authoritarian conflict at play in the Americas right now is in Venezuela, not the US. Trump might model much of his behavior on Venezuelan dictators but he's currently out of power and unlikely to be elected this year. I'm more worried about 2028 when someone like DeSantis, who's policies and tendencies are already significantly more authoritarian, could be leading the Republican ticket. There is value in educating Americans on the benefits of Democracy and the cost of giving it up regardless of who the wannabe dictator is.
lolinder 2y ago
Because I get enough end-of-democracy content from just about everywhere else these days and I come here for something different. It's exhausting to have to read titles like this and filter it myself, and "flag" better communicates that I think this is not just something I'm uninterested in but also something I feel violates the guidelines and shouldn't have been posted in the first place. > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity. I see no evidence that discussion on this article will evolve to be better than discussion on most political submissions, so I see no reason for it to remain on the front page.
- squigz 2y ago
  > > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Most. > > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity. Personally, I don't really consider an article talking about threats to democratic societies as a political or ideological battle. I suppose I can see why some people would though. > I see no evidence that discussion on this article will evolve to be better than discussion on most political submissions, so I see no reason for it to remain on the front page. Several comments on this thread, and many discussions on many political posts in the past, seem to indicate that political discussions on this site are constructive. > It's exhausting to have to read titles like this and filter it myself As an aside, isn't it more exhausting to go and flag it then? (Leaving alone that reading an article title is, you know, not very difficult)
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Nah, flagging and hiding are just a button press away. Coming into the article and commenting on it in response to people wondering why it got flagged is harder, but I feel like I owe it to the rest of the community to explain that there are flaggers who aren't Trump fans and just have strong opinions about what should and shouldn't go on HN.
candiddevmike 2y ago
There are quite a few accounts on HN that flag comments and articles that could be considered critical of Trump. They abuse the guidelines like "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle." as a censorship tool.
- lolinder 2y ago
  I'll happily flag articles that are critical of Harris and Biden too, but they seem to get flagged to death long before I get to them. Based on what I've seen, I suspect it's more accurate to say that there are a few accounts that are consistent in flagging all political content, while a majority will only flag if they disagree with it. If you notice Trump-critical articles getting flagged more often that probably says more about your politics than the state of HN.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - squigz 2y ago
    > If you notice Trump-critical articles getting flagged more often that probably says more about your politics than the state of HN. How does this work? If more Trump-critical articles are being flagged... that's certainly saying something about the state of HN. I'm not sure what it indicates about my own politics?
    - lolinder 2y ago
      I didn't say more Trump-critical articles are flagged, I said if you (or rather, OP) notice them more. HN leans left, but not left enough that the Harris-critical articles don't get posted at all—you just don't have an emotional reaction to them getting flagged to death and so they don't register. I will say that Trump-critical articles definitely last longer and so you'll very likely see more of them before they disappear, which means you're likely to notice them disappear more regularly. That is part of the state of HN, so I'll grant you that—right-wing politics disappear faster than left-wing.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
How do you vouch for a submission that is flagged but not dead? I can't see a way to do it.
- squigz 2y ago
  I think you can only vouch a dead post/comment? I'm not entirely sure though.

201984 2y ago

(2022)

roenxi 2y ago

Ironically, I suspect the biggest threat to democracy would be a staunch refusal to admit that your political opponents are human beings and do, on a fair number of issues, have good points. Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line. I take heart in the US case that nearly 10 years into the Trump era the Democrats are being beaten back from "Nazi" to "Weird". My hope is that in another 5 years they'll retreat to "well we just don't agree with some of this".

candiddevmike 2y ago
> Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line. From my perspective, only one group wants to marginalize groups of people and roll back decades of social progress. For the people being unjustly targeted, it is becoming a fight to the death for them if they want to maintain their dignity, autonomy, and quality of life. Not to mention the whole electing a dictator thing. Kinda weird.
Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
Unironically, the republicans aren't shy of calling liberal opponents 'nazi' either. Do conservatives have any responsibility to also tone down their rhetoric? There was a time when the two parties had a very different dynamic and could, at times, work together when a given policy was in line with both. I think this degraded and then the tea-party conservatives broke it for good, opting for a much more confrontational style where democrats ceased being people with a different opinion and started being 'the enemy' with whom no compromise would be entertained. This trend continued, even strengthened into MAGA trumpism. Biden's bipartisan immigration bill for example, which had many components which conservatives wanted, was rejected because Trump thought it would be seen as 'a win' for 'the other side'. I can't think of an example where a bipartisan bill was rejected by the democrats for similar reasoning.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

draw_down 2y ago

[dead]

stonethrowaway 2y ago

Reading this with sincerity is near impossible. I sympathize with the people who complain that it takes a disproportionate amount of energy to refute nonsense. This page is full of just-so things we are supposed to take at face value and I can’t take it seriously. It’s written in a tragic comedy sort of way lacking self reflection of the situation. I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda piece.

kerkeslager 2y ago
Reading this with sincerity is near impossible. I sympathize with the people who complain that it takes a disproportionate amount of energy to refute nonsense. This post is full of just-so things we are supposed to take at face value and I can’t take it seriously. It’s written in a tragic comedy sort of way lacking self reflection of the situation. I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda post.

xtiansimon 2y ago

Technically the website works well on my smaller iPhone screen. No glitches. Content is well organized. High level outline, lists authors who influence their work. Sidebar for Journalists reveals the community this is written for. Since it is written in 2022, I wonder if the publisher still believes the work is accurate.

polotics 2y ago

[flagged]

tharmas 2y ago

Isn't the real sad truth that there is very little difference between the Democrats and the Republicans when it comes to economic policy? Sure theres differences on social policy eg Gender rights, abortion etc. Both Parties are captured by the Donor class.

HDThoreaun 2y ago
The parties follow what the voters support. If you want unpopular economic policy to have a party we need third parties to be relevant. There’s an economically progressive group in the house but they don’t have much support and in fact some of their members are defecting as they realize the stance isn’t politically relevant.
- tharmas 2y ago
  Change ur first sentence from voters to Donors and i would agree with u. Govt funded medical care? That doesn't have public support?