11 ms·

Do a lot of states enshrine minimum yellow (and I assume green and red too) times? I figured that wouldn't be part of law but at best a DMV regulation type thin

Do a lot of states enshrine minimum yellow (and I assume green and red too) times? I figured that wouldn't be part of law but at best a DMV regulation type thing.

bobthepanda 2y ago
As far as I know, no state legislature in this country has completely given up traffic code rulemaking, so legislatively passed rules would always take primacy, and if you wanted that enshrined you could get it done. After all, DMVs don’t have the power to set criminal penalty standards for things like DUI, seatbelt laws, etc. And traffic cameras usually have to be enabled by state legislation since they result in penalties, so the same law could also involve minimum standards on yellow lights.
bsder 2y ago
It normally is a state DOT (department of transportation) regulation rather than a legislative law. The timings didn't really need much regulation as they were generally set by Professional Engineers(PEs) who had to sign off that they analyzed the situation and it was safe. Those PEs would generally take into account the speed limit as well as actual car speeds, the general road conditions, average human reaction times, and average car braking characteristics so that you had sufficient time to stop when the light turned yellow. Normally they got it right, but occasionally they missed a bit (actual traffic speeding more than expected) and you got a "short yellow" which generally would get corrected if enough people complained. And then some bright bulb got the idea to install enforcement cameras on the intersections--which doesn't sound like a bad idea. Except that the issue is the revenue goes to the police department AND gets split with the company maintaining the cameras--yeah, you can see where this is going a MILE away. The cameras initially got installed on a couple of the most dangerous intersections and genuinely helped--accidents went way down on those. People were genuinely pleased about this. But, see, that's an issue as the revenue is now below projections. So, then the cameras started getting installed on super busy intersections instead of dangerous ones that were literally blocks away. At this point people started getting pissed off but could still be deflected with "Don't do illegal crap at the intersection". But, you see, revenue was still below projections because people adjust their behaviors--they either go a different route or adjust to avoid the camera firing. It was at this point that they shortened the yellow lights to bump the revenue and where the shit hit the fan. The yellow lights were sufficiently short that you couldn't stop legally, accidents at the intersections increased because of rear-ending, people could document all this, and discovery pulled up the profit sharing agreements between the camera vendors and the police. At this point, everybody was pissed off and the cameras all got yanked because it was now an electoral issue. I got to watch this occur in real time in San Diego, but they were far from the only municipality to pull this garbage.

Do a lot of states enshrine minimum yellow (and I assume green and red too) times? I figured that wouldn't be part of law but at best a DMV regulation type thing.

bobthepanda 2y ago

As far as I know, no state legislature in this country has completely given up traffic code rulemaking, so legislatively passed rules would always take primacy, and if you wanted that enshrined you could get it done. After all, DMVs don’t have the power to set criminal penalty standards for things like DUI, seatbelt laws, etc. And traffic cameras usually have to be enabled by state legislation since they result in penalties, so the same law could also involve minimum standards on yellow lights.

bsder 2y ago

It normally is a state DOT (department of transportation) regulation rather than a legislative law. The timings didn't really need much regulation as they were generally set by Professional Engineers(PEs) who had to sign off that they analyzed the situation and it was safe. Those PEs would generally take into account the speed limit as well as actual car speeds, the general road conditions, average human reaction times, and average car braking characteristics so that you had sufficient time to stop when the light turned yellow. Normally they got it right, but occasionally they missed a bit (actual traffic speeding more than expected) and you got a "short yellow" which generally would get corrected if enough people complained. And then some bright bulb got the idea to install enforcement cameras on the intersections--which doesn't sound like a bad idea. Except that the issue is the revenue goes to the police department AND gets split with the company maintaining the cameras--yeah, you can see where this is going a MILE away. The cameras initially got installed on a couple of the most dangerous intersections and genuinely helped--accidents went way down on those. People were genuinely pleased about this. But, see, that's an issue as the revenue is now below projections. So, then the cameras started getting installed on super busy intersections instead of dangerous ones that were literally blocks away. At this point people started getting pissed off but could still be deflected with "Don't do illegal crap at the intersection". But, you see, revenue was still below projections because people adjust their behaviors--they either go a different route or adjust to avoid the camera firing. It was at this point that they shortened the yellow lights to bump the revenue and where the shit hit the fan. The yellow lights were sufficiently short that you couldn't stop legally, accidents at the intersections increased because of rear-ending, people could document all this, and discovery pulled up the profit sharing agreements between the camera vendors and the police. At this point, everybody was pissed off and the cameras all got yanked because it was now an electoral issue. I got to watch this occur in real time in San Diego, but they were far from the only municipality to pull this garbage.