4 ms·

Is an interesting read, but it's striking how condescending he is at the outset. How about let the reader decide what they understand or not? There's no use in

by bmitc 2y ago

Is an interesting read, but it's striking how condescending he is at the outset. How about let the reader decide what they understand or not? There's no use in saying anything regarding that.

EdwardCoffin 2y ago
Did you read the introduction? It says: Weil wrote this fourteen-page letter to Simone Weil, his sister ... (Keep in mind that the letter was not written for a mathematician, even though Simone could not understand most of it.)
- bmitc 2y ago
  Yes I did. And?
  - monktastic1 2y ago
    And without that context, his sister may have been perplexed as to why he would dive into complicated math that he should have known she wouldn't understand. Consider that sometimes when you read ego or aggression into writing, it's not coming from the author's mind but is a projection of your own.
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
One would think that he would know whether his own sister, the recipient, would have sufficient mathematical background to understand his work.
- bmitc 2y ago
  Exactly, so why take the time to remind her of that? Ego is why.
  - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
    A more positive interpretation could be something like "I can't express what I want to say without going into topics that I know you have no familiarity with. But I'm aware of that and am not just insensitively bombarding you with jargon."
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      Indeed. This is a six (printed) page letter, and already at a page or two in I wouldn't be surprised if it would take that many textbooks (how many printed pages?) to get SAW from where ever she left off (I don't recall maths being very prominent in classics/philosophy departments; note AW's description of a field) to where she could have a hope of seeing the moon itself, beyond the finger pointing at it.
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
The intended reader was his sister, who he sent the letter to. This was a private letter, not a publication. His sister had evidentially asked him about his work (maybe to give him something positive to talk about given that he was in prison). "Some thoughts I have had of late, concerning my arithmetic-algebraic work, might pass for a re- sponse to one of your letters, where you asked me what is of interest to me in my work. So, I decided to write them down, even if for the most part they are incomprehensible to you." It might seem condescending to speak to his sister like this, but perhaps he understood her intent well enough, and was essentially acknowledging it.
- samstave 2y ago
  Likely even less so... That was likely just how colloquially he is saying to his kin "Tahnks for prodding me about what I thought of my work... so Ill put some write it out here, for good measure, so dont worry if you dont get it..." Basically he is saying, let me document this for myself, at the appreciated behest of sis.
  - drdec 2y ago
    > let me document this for myself, at the appreciated behest of sis. Tell me you live in the information age without telling me you live in the information age
  - kergonath 2y ago
    Do not get upset on behalf of his sister. You do not know either her or him. Besides, she was perfectly able to get upset and make it known on her own.
- vixen99 2y ago
  Maybe not everyone knows that the sister was Simone - much better known than her brother in the world outside mathematics.
larve 2y ago
(native french) It is also a letter originally written in french in 1940: http://denise.vella.chemla.free.fr/transc-AWSW.pdf http://denise.vella.chemla.free.fr/transc-AWSW.pdf . It uses "tu" which is the affectionate/intimate version of you, the language used is as is quite common in educated households (and the weil's certainly was) is "language soutenu", which is quite formal sound and elaborate (french people love their language), and while I can see how it could strike one as cold, especially in english-speaking countries, it doesn't seem condescending to me in the least, on the contrary.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  > french people love their language as well as their anglicisms, mdr: > ... il avait aussi un theorema egregium, et je ne sais plus which is which.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Lost in Translation: it is gliding for me https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rdc71 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rdc71
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      unfortunately subtitles are never going to do LNA HO justice: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xefrls https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xefrls (wait, did M Polnareff invent the lyric video here?)
      - defrost 2y ago
        I expected a No True Belgian response and was instead pleasantly surprised. I'd have guessed he invented Boggle, the intertubes have that at 1972, 18 years earlier. I have no words for the French here in '67: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZbw6YCcm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZbw6YCcm4
        2y ago

by bmitc 2y ago

Is an interesting read, but it's striking how condescending he is at the outset. How about let the reader decide what they understand or not? There's no use in saying anything regarding that.

EdwardCoffin 2y ago

Did you read the introduction? It says: Weil wrote this fourteen-page letter to Simone Weil, his sister ... (Keep in mind that the letter was not written for a mathematician, even though Simone could not understand most of it.)

bmitc 2y ago
Yes I did. And?
- monktastic1 2y ago
  And without that context, his sister may have been perplexed as to why he would dive into complicated math that he should have known she wouldn't understand. Consider that sometimes when you read ego or aggression into writing, it's not coming from the author's mind but is a projection of your own.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago

One would think that he would know whether his own sister, the recipient, would have sufficient mathematical background to understand his work.

bmitc 2y ago
Exactly, so why take the time to remind her of that? Ego is why.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  A more positive interpretation could be something like "I can't express what I want to say without going into topics that I know you have no familiarity with. But I'm aware of that and am not just insensitively bombarding you with jargon."
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    Indeed. This is a six (printed) page letter, and already at a page or two in I wouldn't be surprised if it would take that many textbooks (how many printed pages?) to get SAW from where ever she left off (I don't recall maths being very prominent in classics/philosophy departments; note AW's description of a field) to where she could have a hope of seeing the moon itself, beyond the finger pointing at it.

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago

The intended reader was his sister, who he sent the letter to. This was a private letter, not a publication. His sister had evidentially asked him about his work (maybe to give him something positive to talk about given that he was in prison). "Some thoughts I have had of late, concerning my arithmetic-algebraic work, might pass for a re- sponse to one of your letters, where you asked me what is of interest to me in my work. So, I decided to write them down, even if for the most part they are incomprehensible to you." It might seem condescending to speak to his sister like this, but perhaps he understood her intent well enough, and was essentially acknowledging it.

samstave 2y ago
Likely even less so... That was likely just how colloquially he is saying to his kin "Tahnks for prodding me about what I thought of my work... so Ill put some write it out here, for good measure, so dont worry if you dont get it..." Basically he is saying, let me document this for myself, at the appreciated behest of sis.
- drdec 2y ago
  > let me document this for myself, at the appreciated behest of sis. Tell me you live in the information age without telling me you live in the information age
- kergonath 2y ago
  Do not get upset on behalf of his sister. You do not know either her or him. Besides, she was perfectly able to get upset and make it known on her own.
vixen99 2y ago
Maybe not everyone knows that the sister was Simone - much better known than her brother in the world outside mathematics.

larve 2y ago

(native french) It is also a letter originally written in french in 1940: http://denise.vella.chemla.free.fr/transc-AWSW.pdf http://denise.vella.chemla.free.fr/transc-AWSW.pdf . It uses "tu" which is the affectionate/intimate version of you, the language used is as is quite common in educated households (and the weil's certainly was) is "language soutenu", which is quite formal sound and elaborate (french people love their language), and while I can see how it could strike one as cold, especially in english-speaking countries, it doesn't seem condescending to me in the least, on the contrary.

082349872349872 2y ago
> french people love their language as well as their anglicisms, mdr: > ... il avait aussi un theorema egregium, et je ne sais plus which is which.
- defrost 2y ago
  Lost in Translation: it is gliding for me https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rdc71 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rdc71
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    unfortunately subtitles are never going to do LNA HO justice: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xefrls https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xefrls (wait, did M Polnareff invent the lyric video here?)
    - defrost 2y ago
      I expected a No True Belgian response and was instead pleasantly surprised. I'd have guessed he invented Boggle, the intertubes have that at 1972, 18 years earlier. I have no words for the French here in '67: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZbw6YCcm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZbw6YCcm4
      - 2y ago