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or, instead of installing basically speed bumps in all the intersections, they could show up and arrest the participants for misdemeanors and felonies that are

by fargle 2y ago

or, instead of installing basically speed bumps in all the intersections, they could show up and arrest the participants for misdemeanors and felonies that are clearly visible on video, actually book them into jail with serious bail. impound the cars as evidence and don't give them back unless they prevail at trial. if the political system isn't interested in enforcing, of all things, these kind of laws, speed bumps aren't going to help.

brudgers 2y ago
Arrests require a willingness to use lethal force. That may not seem disproportionate to you. It does to me.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Given that cars driven unsafely can kill people? But that's hypothetical. Are there cases of people getting killed by this activity? That would affect the trade-off.
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    > Are there cases of people getting killed by this activity? Multiple cases in Toronto throughout the years. Just google and you will find multiple examples this year alone.
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      Well then, my heart does not bleed for the possible need for lethal force in the process of arresting these people.
- david-gpu 2y ago
  In Toronto the police has a standing policy not to chase street racers. Instead, they track them remotely and arrest them once they get out of the vehicle. These street racers are putting the general public at risk, and have indeed killed several people in the past few years.
- NotGMan 2y ago
  Imagine not wanting to arrest people who endanger people on roads and cause havoc!
- lagniappe 2y ago
  in your model of it, we deprecate all misdemeanors and only have violent felonies
- fargle 2y ago
  that is untrue, and a disingenuous argument. there is no requirement for violence simply to arrest them. but if street racing assholes decide to escalate to violence (and a car is a weapon), then both staying alive and protecting the public requires willingness to use lethal force in reaction to the criminals' violent and dangerous behavior. and that isn't disproportionate at all, that's how it should be. and i'm grateful that there are people who make that sacrifice and have a willingness to protect me with lethal force if necessary.
Moldoteck 2y ago
Arrest means waiting for the crime to be committed. With a combo of curbs, roundabouts, speed bumps, road/street narrowing you redesign the street to disallow such behavior by default. It's like putting a crosswalk far away from a bus station. It's a design that encourages ppl to illegally cross the street since crosswalk is far away. Instead you redesign the street/crosswalk in such a way that by design there's no more need to break the law. Or if you hate pedestrians you put a big fence that's impossible to cross unless you use crosswalk- again, a design that makes breaking the law hard/not relevant
themadturk 2y ago
I think changing behavior is superior to arrest. Infrastructure that can potentially damage your expensive customized street racer while presenting a minor inconvenience to legal drivers is probably effective.
- Jensson 2y ago
  It slows down emergency vehicles like ambulances, that matters quite a lot.

by fargle 2y ago

brudgers 2y ago

Arrests require a willingness to use lethal force. That may not seem disproportionate to you. It does to me.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Given that cars driven unsafely can kill people? But that's hypothetical. Are there cases of people getting killed by this activity? That would affect the trade-off.
- david-gpu 2y ago
  > Are there cases of people getting killed by this activity? Multiple cases in Toronto throughout the years. Just google and you will find multiple examples this year alone.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Well then, my heart does not bleed for the possible need for lethal force in the process of arresting these people.
david-gpu 2y ago
In Toronto the police has a standing policy not to chase street racers. Instead, they track them remotely and arrest them once they get out of the vehicle. These street racers are putting the general public at risk, and have indeed killed several people in the past few years.
NotGMan 2y ago
Imagine not wanting to arrest people who endanger people on roads and cause havoc!
lagniappe 2y ago
in your model of it, we deprecate all misdemeanors and only have violent felonies
fargle 2y ago
that is untrue, and a disingenuous argument. there is no requirement for violence simply to arrest them. but if street racing assholes decide to escalate to violence (and a car is a weapon), then both staying alive and protecting the public requires willingness to use lethal force in reaction to the criminals' violent and dangerous behavior. and that isn't disproportionate at all, that's how it should be. and i'm grateful that there are people who make that sacrifice and have a willingness to protect me with lethal force if necessary.

Moldoteck 2y ago

Arrest means waiting for the crime to be committed. With a combo of curbs, roundabouts, speed bumps, road/street narrowing you redesign the street to disallow such behavior by default. It's like putting a crosswalk far away from a bus station. It's a design that encourages ppl to illegally cross the street since crosswalk is far away. Instead you redesign the street/crosswalk in such a way that by design there's no more need to break the law. Or if you hate pedestrians you put a big fence that's impossible to cross unless you use crosswalk- again, a design that makes breaking the law hard/not relevant

themadturk 2y ago

I think changing behavior is superior to arrest. Infrastructure that can potentially damage your expensive customized street racer while presenting a minor inconvenience to legal drivers is probably effective.

Jensson 2y ago
It slows down emergency vehicles like ambulances, that matters quite a lot.