5 ms·

The "No fix planned" is specifically for just the Ryzen 3000 desktop series. While obviously a fix would be better, given the age of this series as well as the

The "No fix planned" is specifically for just the Ryzen 3000 desktop series. While obviously a fix would be better, given the age of this series as well as the need for ring 0 access to exploit the vulnerability, the actual impact from leaving it unfixed on those CPUs will probably be pretty limited.

nullifidian 2y ago
>given the age of this series It's from the Jul 2019. Not very old. CPUs from the early 2010s, with enough ram, are still perfectly usable for light browsing and text editing tasks.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  Calling 3900 “very old” is stretching it, but they’re certainly “old”. Chips from the early 2010s are very old and inefficient - it’s just that you listed tasks that demand nothing, and if battery power is not required it will certainly do the trick. Being very old and being usable are very things, as any senior person or tech collector will tell you.
  - Vegenoid 2y ago
    > Calling 3900 “very old” is stretching it, but they’re certainly “old”. No, I will contest <5 years old CPUs being called "old". This perspective is warped by the marketing teams of computer hardware companies. There are many 3000 series processors which are perfectly powerful enough for powerful modern software.
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      Totally, I'm chilling with a 2016 skylake i5 and have no desire to upgrade whatsoever.
    - arghwhat 2y ago
      To nitpick, they are not “<5 years”, they are officially more than 5 years and one month old depending on the model. They have been superseded 3 times (5000, 7000 and now 9000), fallen off comparison charts. Even 5000 to 9000 nets you 2x real-world performance for the same power, 3000 was slower and hungrier than that. There is nothing wrong with using or intentionally buying old things that work. But being “powerful enough to run modern software” doesn’t mean more than “is AMD64 and support a minimum of 8GB of RAM”. I also have a 3rd gen intel i7’s laptop that is “powerful enough to run modern software”, but it’s still very old and incredibly power hungry for the little work it does. I also have a 14 year old car that performs its functions as well as when it was new - much to my dismay - but it’s still objectively old.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - Vegenoid 2y ago
        If we're nitpicking, then the some were released in July 2019, some were released in October 2019, and some in 2020. And practically, if the earliest they were shipping was July 2019, the wide majority of owners will have had the unit for <5 years. > But being “powerful enough to run modern software” doesn’t mean more than “is AMD64 and support a minimum of 8GB of RAM”. I also have a 3rd gen intel i7’s laptop that is “powerful enough to run modern software”, but it’s still very old and incredibly power hungry for the little work it does. If the hardware can run just fine, what makes it old? Why call it old? Increased power efficiency? That is a good thing to strive for, but from a carbon emissions perspective, most computers cost much more carbon to manufacture than to operate across their lifespan. > I also have a 14 year old car that performs its functions as well as when it was new - much to my dismay - but it’s still objectively old. It isn't "objectively" old. "Old" does not have an objective definition. I also have a 14 year old car, that I do not consider to be old. I don't consider it to be old because it functions well, matches the aesthetic style of the majority of cars on the road, and getting maintenance on it is easy, as the wide majority of mechanics will be familiar with it. Sounds like your car is in the same boat as mine. That you consider a 5 year old processor and a 14 year old car to be old is a reflection of your own opinions. I do not agree and think that perspective is consumerist, exactly what corporations spend lots of money to try and make people think. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electric...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
PedroBatista 2y ago
Yes, all of that but.. that's exactly the way of looking at things that a chip company like AMD are not allowed to have ( or at least to say publicly ). The CPUs are "old" they are "limit" as an installed base but only comparing to today's AMD market share because I'm pretty sure there are hundred of thousands ( if not a few millions ) of these CPUs all over the World. My main point is: going the extra-mile/cost to fix these cpus would be the cheaper route for them because image and credibility matters.. a lot.
Retr0id 2y ago
As someone currently thinking about upgrading a 3000-series desktop, it's not exactly making me feel good about sticking with AMD.
- eropple 2y ago
  Intel's literally-everything will make you feel much worse about switching.
wlesieutre 2y ago
I know more than one person running a Ryzen 3700X (launched 7/7/2019) or similar and it's still a perfectly solid CPU. There are at least upgrade options compatible with the same socket, unlike a certain other CPU manufacturer, but it's not like these are really worth replacing yet. UserBenchmark scores the 5800x3d about 17% higher for $340.
- outworlder 2y ago
  I am still running a 3600X. Zero reason to upgrade, the CPU has not been a bottleneck on anything I can throw at it. And if I do need to upgrade, that means new motherboard and memory too.
  - edward28 2y ago
    The 5700x3d is a cheap upgrade that stays on am4 and brings performance inline with zen 4 6 cores.
    - wlesieutre 2y ago
      Still over $200 for something that doesn't need an upgrade except for this unpatched security issue. I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather do with $200. At minimum, save it toward a GPU upgrade that would actually be useful, rather than replacing my CPU that isn't a performance bottleneck.
- edward28 2y ago
  I wouldn't trust userbenchmark, they are extremely anti AMD biased. The 5800x3d is closer to 50% faster than the 3700x in most tasks.
dbdbdbdbdb 2y ago
According to Wikipedia the Ryzen 3000 series CPUs were released on 7 July 2019: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2 That's not very old. I guess maybe they can't fix them or something. This is very bad for their reputation.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  Given the relative CPU stagnation, even a ten year old chip (2014) is still more than capable of doing tasks the average user requires.
  - Sakos 2y ago
    I still have an i5 2500k chugging along being able to do everything that isn't a heavy workload with ease. This kind of exploit for a CPU that is only 5 years old not getting a fix is embarrassing and shameful.
aleksanb 2y ago
I bought my 3900x just under 5 years ago. Norwegian consumer protection laws give me 5 years where the producer is required to fix any defects that came with the product. As this bug now has become known to always have been there, i could probably force amd to replace my 3900x if they don't provide software patches. Has anyone else attempted a similar RTM for software defects?
- f1shy 2y ago
  I do not think this includes security problems. The main function is given, so I do not think you can do anything.
  - kuschku 2y ago
    It absolutely includes security issues, across the entire EU and EEA btw. (Though in most EU/EEA countries you only get 2 years, which is why phones now get 36 months of security updates if they're on sale for 12 months).
christophilus 2y ago
My main rig is a 3600. It’s plenty fast and powerful. The fact that they won’t fix is unacceptable to me.
- sqeaky 2y ago
  Why? I'm anal about security and this barely registers with me but not as something to be angry about. Somebody with ring 0 privileges (a prereq for this) on your CPU already has root and you have to presume they've already had the ability to write to your BIOS and VBIOS, and this is just confirmation of that. If you're actually worried about this stuff then how can you be sure that someone hasn't paid Microsoft to put stuff into your firmware?
  - dtx1 2y ago
    Step 1: Lease a Server for a month Step 2: Compromise that server Step 3: Cancel the lease Step 4: Wait for it to be reused Step 5: Next Customer in line is now compromised
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      If the cloud provider is giving metal ring-0 access to their customers, this particular issue is the least of their worries (and their customers').
    - sqeaky 2y ago
      Real hardware running midrange AMD only CPUs? This doesn't hit Intel or AMDs Epyc or Threadripper.
  - christophilus 2y ago
    That’s fair. I’d missed the ring0 part.

nullifidian 2y ago

>given the age of this series It's from the Jul 2019. Not very old. CPUs from the early 2010s, with enough ram, are still perfectly usable for light browsing and text editing tasks.

arghwhat 2y ago
Calling 3900 “very old” is stretching it, but they’re certainly “old”. Chips from the early 2010s are very old and inefficient - it’s just that you listed tasks that demand nothing, and if battery power is not required it will certainly do the trick. Being very old and being usable are very things, as any senior person or tech collector will tell you.
- Vegenoid 2y ago
  > Calling 3900 “very old” is stretching it, but they’re certainly “old”. No, I will contest <5 years old CPUs being called "old". This perspective is warped by the marketing teams of computer hardware companies. There are many 3000 series processors which are perfectly powerful enough for powerful modern software.
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    Totally, I'm chilling with a 2016 skylake i5 and have no desire to upgrade whatsoever.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    To nitpick, they are not “<5 years”, they are officially more than 5 years and one month old depending on the model. They have been superseded 3 times (5000, 7000 and now 9000), fallen off comparison charts. Even 5000 to 9000 nets you 2x real-world performance for the same power, 3000 was slower and hungrier than that. There is nothing wrong with using or intentionally buying old things that work. But being “powerful enough to run modern software” doesn’t mean more than “is AMD64 and support a minimum of 8GB of RAM”. I also have a 3rd gen intel i7’s laptop that is “powerful enough to run modern software”, but it’s still very old and incredibly power hungry for the little work it does. I also have a 14 year old car that performs its functions as well as when it was new - much to my dismay - but it’s still objectively old.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Vegenoid 2y ago
      If we're nitpicking, then the some were released in July 2019, some were released in October 2019, and some in 2020. And practically, if the earliest they were shipping was July 2019, the wide majority of owners will have had the unit for <5 years. > But being “powerful enough to run modern software” doesn’t mean more than “is AMD64 and support a minimum of 8GB of RAM”. I also have a 3rd gen intel i7’s laptop that is “powerful enough to run modern software”, but it’s still very old and incredibly power hungry for the little work it does. If the hardware can run just fine, what makes it old? Why call it old? Increased power efficiency? That is a good thing to strive for, but from a carbon emissions perspective, most computers cost much more carbon to manufacture than to operate across their lifespan. > I also have a 14 year old car that performs its functions as well as when it was new - much to my dismay - but it’s still objectively old. It isn't "objectively" old. "Old" does not have an objective definition. I also have a 14 year old car, that I do not consider to be old. I don't consider it to be old because it functions well, matches the aesthetic style of the majority of cars on the road, and getting maintenance on it is easy, as the wide majority of mechanics will be familiar with it. Sounds like your car is in the same boat as mine. That you consider a 5 year old processor and a 14 year old car to be old is a reflection of your own opinions. I do not agree and think that perspective is consumerist, exactly what corporations spend lots of money to try and make people think. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electric...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

PedroBatista 2y ago

Yes, all of that but.. that's exactly the way of looking at things that a chip company like AMD are not allowed to have ( or at least to say publicly ). The CPUs are "old" they are "limit" as an installed base but only comparing to today's AMD market share because I'm pretty sure there are hundred of thousands ( if not a few millions ) of these CPUs all over the World. My main point is: going the extra-mile/cost to fix these cpus would be the cheaper route for them because image and credibility matters.. a lot.

Retr0id 2y ago

As someone currently thinking about upgrading a 3000-series desktop, it's not exactly making me feel good about sticking with AMD.

eropple 2y ago
Intel's literally-everything will make you feel much worse about switching.

wlesieutre 2y ago

I know more than one person running a Ryzen 3700X (launched 7/7/2019) or similar and it's still a perfectly solid CPU. There are at least upgrade options compatible with the same socket, unlike a certain other CPU manufacturer, but it's not like these are really worth replacing yet. UserBenchmark scores the 5800x3d about 17% higher for $340.

outworlder 2y ago
I am still running a 3600X. Zero reason to upgrade, the CPU has not been a bottleneck on anything I can throw at it. And if I do need to upgrade, that means new motherboard and memory too.
- edward28 2y ago
  The 5700x3d is a cheap upgrade that stays on am4 and brings performance inline with zen 4 6 cores.
  - wlesieutre 2y ago
    Still over $200 for something that doesn't need an upgrade except for this unpatched security issue. I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather do with $200. At minimum, save it toward a GPU upgrade that would actually be useful, rather than replacing my CPU that isn't a performance bottleneck.
edward28 2y ago
I wouldn't trust userbenchmark, they are extremely anti AMD biased. The 5800x3d is closer to 50% faster than the 3700x in most tasks.

dbdbdbdbdb 2y ago

According to Wikipedia the Ryzen 3000 series CPUs were released on 7 July 2019: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2 That's not very old. I guess maybe they can't fix them or something. This is very bad for their reputation.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
Given the relative CPU stagnation, even a ten year old chip (2014) is still more than capable of doing tasks the average user requires.
- Sakos 2y ago
  I still have an i5 2500k chugging along being able to do everything that isn't a heavy workload with ease. This kind of exploit for a CPU that is only 5 years old not getting a fix is embarrassing and shameful.

aleksanb 2y ago

I bought my 3900x just under 5 years ago. Norwegian consumer protection laws give me 5 years where the producer is required to fix any defects that came with the product. As this bug now has become known to always have been there, i could probably force amd to replace my 3900x if they don't provide software patches. Has anyone else attempted a similar RTM for software defects?

f1shy 2y ago
I do not think this includes security problems. The main function is given, so I do not think you can do anything.
- kuschku 2y ago
  It absolutely includes security issues, across the entire EU and EEA btw. (Though in most EU/EEA countries you only get 2 years, which is why phones now get 36 months of security updates if they're on sale for 12 months).

christophilus 2y ago

My main rig is a 3600. It’s plenty fast and powerful. The fact that they won’t fix is unacceptable to me.

sqeaky 2y ago
Why? I'm anal about security and this barely registers with me but not as something to be angry about. Somebody with ring 0 privileges (a prereq for this) on your CPU already has root and you have to presume they've already had the ability to write to your BIOS and VBIOS, and this is just confirmation of that. If you're actually worried about this stuff then how can you be sure that someone hasn't paid Microsoft to put stuff into your firmware?
- dtx1 2y ago
  Step 1: Lease a Server for a month Step 2: Compromise that server Step 3: Cancel the lease Step 4: Wait for it to be reused Step 5: Next Customer in line is now compromised
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    If the cloud provider is giving metal ring-0 access to their customers, this particular issue is the least of their worries (and their customers').
  - sqeaky 2y ago
    Real hardware running midrange AMD only CPUs? This doesn't hit Intel or AMDs Epyc or Threadripper.
- christophilus 2y ago
  That’s fair. I’d missed the ring0 part.