4 ms·

No, it’s more expensive to you, and you get to ignore the externalities. It’s like climate change - you don’t care because it doesn’t affect you. How many hund

No, it’s more expensive to you, and you get to ignore the externalities. It’s like climate change - you don’t care because it doesn’t affect you. How many hundreds of hours are wasted every day by Jira’s lazy loaded UI? I spend seconds waiting for UI transitions to happen on that app. How much of my life do I spend waiting for applications to load and show a single string that should take 50ms to fetch but instead takes 30 seconds to load a full application?

lpapez 2y ago
I don't know, but personally I've spent orders of magnitude more time debugging memory leaks in languages without GC than the time I've wasted waiting for shitty apps to load. Software bloat is a real thing, I agree, but it's a fact of life and in my opinion not a hill worth dying on. People just don't care. If you want proof of this, try to find a widely used Jira alternative which doesn't suck and doesn't need a terabyte cluster to run. There isn't one because most people just don't care about it, they care about the bottom line.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Not only that - when your ticket system becomes a Jira because of all the feature creep required, it’ll perform like a Jira. Perhaps a little better if you can implement more in less crazy ways (it seems to keep a lot of logic into a relational database, which is a big no-no for the long term evolution of your system).
- sgarland 2y ago
  > People just don’t care. Devs don’t care, because they aren’t being forced to care, and they have loaded M3 MBPs, so they don’t notice a difference. I firmly believe that we’ll see more of a swing back to self-hosting in some form or another, be it colo or just more reliance on VPS, and when we do, suddenly performance will matter. Turns out when you can’t just magically get 20 more cores on a whim, you might care.
rbanffy 2y ago
How many years of our lives would be saved if Jira was rewritten in Verilog and ran on the fastest FPGAs? Not much. I bet it spends most of the time looking up data on their massive databases, which do the best they can to cope with the data structures Jira uses internally. You could, conceivably, write a competitor from scratch in highly optimised Rust (or C++) and, by the time you have covered all the millions of corner cases that caused Atlassian to turn a ticketing system into Jira, you’ll have a similar mess.
- maccard 2y ago
  This ad absurdem argument is ridiculous. Nobody is talking about writing web apps in verilog except you. I can’t claim to know why Jura is so slow - I don’t work for atlassian. It was an example of an app I use daily that I spend minutes per day staring at skeletons, loading throbbers and interstitials on. Core architectural choices like “programming language” set a baseline of performance that you can’t really fix. Python is unbelievably slow and your users pay that cost. There are lots of options in between that offer fast iteration speeds and orders of magnitude faster runtime speeds - go and .net are widely popular, have excellent ecosystems and don’t require you to flash an FPGA.

lpapez 2y ago

I don't know, but personally I've spent orders of magnitude more time debugging memory leaks in languages without GC than the time I've wasted waiting for shitty apps to load. Software bloat is a real thing, I agree, but it's a fact of life and in my opinion not a hill worth dying on. People just don't care. If you want proof of this, try to find a widely used Jira alternative which doesn't suck and doesn't need a terabyte cluster to run. There isn't one because most people just don't care about it, they care about the bottom line.

rbanffy 2y ago
Not only that - when your ticket system becomes a Jira because of all the feature creep required, it’ll perform like a Jira. Perhaps a little better if you can implement more in less crazy ways (it seems to keep a lot of logic into a relational database, which is a big no-no for the long term evolution of your system).
sgarland 2y ago
> People just don’t care. Devs don’t care, because they aren’t being forced to care, and they have loaded M3 MBPs, so they don’t notice a difference. I firmly believe that we’ll see more of a swing back to self-hosting in some form or another, be it colo or just more reliance on VPS, and when we do, suddenly performance will matter. Turns out when you can’t just magically get 20 more cores on a whim, you might care.

rbanffy 2y ago

How many years of our lives would be saved if Jira was rewritten in Verilog and ran on the fastest FPGAs? Not much. I bet it spends most of the time looking up data on their massive databases, which do the best they can to cope with the data structures Jira uses internally. You could, conceivably, write a competitor from scratch in highly optimised Rust (or C++) and, by the time you have covered all the millions of corner cases that caused Atlassian to turn a ticketing system into Jira, you’ll have a similar mess.

maccard 2y ago
This ad absurdem argument is ridiculous. Nobody is talking about writing web apps in verilog except you. I can’t claim to know why Jura is so slow - I don’t work for atlassian. It was an example of an app I use daily that I spend minutes per day staring at skeletons, loading throbbers and interstitials on. Core architectural choices like “programming language” set a baseline of performance that you can’t really fix. Python is unbelievably slow and your users pay that cost. There are lots of options in between that offer fast iteration speeds and orders of magnitude faster runtime speeds - go and .net are widely popular, have excellent ecosystems and don’t require you to flash an FPGA.