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I looked into bitcoin mining before as a possible hackish investment, but there seemed to be anniversary where they made mining twice as hard. As it stood when

I looked into bitcoin mining before as a possible hackish investment, but there seemed to be anniversary where they made mining twice as hard. As it stood when I checked it out (few months ago) you would only make a buck or two a day with a top of the line graphics card, counting in cheap electricity but NOT the price of the hardware. I cant imagine what happens if they continue doing that (making it more difficult)

dekz 14y ago
You're meant to move to making money from processing transactions than mining for new coins, but that's still far from now.
- rmc 14y ago
  That assumes BitCoin takes off and becomes popular. Which has not been the case yet.
  - narcissus 14y ago
    How do we determine 'popular', though? According to http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ there were 3.5M Bitcoins sent in the last 24 hours. MtGox has them at $6.50 each at the moment. I wouldn't consider $22M worth of transactions in the last 24 hours 'unpopular'...
    - ErikHuisman 14y ago
      So, if i move my funds between bank accounts a few times a day i can create a popular multi million euro economy? I don't think 3,5m * $6,50 is the correct measurement of popularity.
      - narcissus 14y ago
        I guess if you think that people are just moving Bitcoins around to bump up those numbers, then maybe it's not really measuring anything... I honestly don't know the best way to measure popularity, but I'd love to hear a good way to do so. Until then, well, for me at least, that seems to be the best way to try and work it out. How else do you judge popularity of a currency other than by how much it's being used?
        rmc 14y ago
        I honestly don't know the best way to measure popularity, but I'd love to hear a good way to do so If it can be used in a lot of places. Currently, it can't.
        Retric 14y ago
        Popularity relates to total value so ~9million coins * 6$ a coin = 54 million in total value which is minuscule in therms of global finance. But, number of places you can spend it also counts and there is just not many places selling bit-coins. Even though it would seem like an easy way to launder drug money it's still just a toy.
        narcissus 14y ago
        I don't want to sound as though I'm arguing for arguments sake, and I really have no dog in this fight. But using the argument of 'size in terms of global finance' would surely render most currencies other than say USD, the Euro and a couple of Asian currencies as 'not popular', wouldn't it? To be honest, I look at the total above of $54M and think "transactions over 24 hours worth $22M for a currency whose entire value is $54M... that seems liquid at least" (for my pathetic understanding of economics). To me, it seems as though there is a lot of activity within the currency itself, which to me says its popular in the circles that use it. Arguing that it's not popular because of its size, despite the activity, would probably mean that something like the New Zealand dollar would be unpopular. But again, I bet that most NZers would disagree. So then it just comes full circle and again, I just don't know if I believe it's not popular... just maybe, it's 'nichey'?
        Retric 14y ago
        I don't know if you really want to compare the NZD to Bitcoins as the NZD is a lot bigger than you might think. Anyway, the New Zealand dollar represents 1.6% of all currency trades globally which is small but not exactly tiny. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_dollar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_dollar Their M3 is also over 200 billion. I am not sure if that's in NZD or USD but 1 NZD = 0.7901 USD so the difference is not that important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply
  - vlasta2 14y ago
    And it won't become popular, because it attracts the wrong kind of people - speculative investors and bitcoin miners dreaming of becoming rich. It does not attract real buyers or sellers...
mrb 14y ago
That's correct. An HD 7970 (about $400) will mine $2.20/day currently. That's $66/month. But for a starving student who lives in a dorm (doesn't pay directly his electricity), with a gaming video card, $66/month is nothing to sneeze at.
TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
"They" don't make it more difficult, it's collectively decided by the network based on the rate of production, IIRC.
- Retric 14y ago
  Nope, there are cliffs where the total number of bit-coins produced per day drop off a cliff. It's a silly idea designed to make early 'investors' lot's of money at the cost of making the entire system be less stable, and worth less money.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    You realise there is no central control, right? The system can lag though, and if someone build a large rig and turned it on, that might have had an effect.
    - Retric 14y ago
      There is central control at the protocol level. Look at a chart of total bitcoins over time and note it's not smooth: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/File:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/File:Total_bitcoins_over_time_gra... Why was it setup like that? Well it was decided rather than having a fixed rate of supply though time there would be a target number of total bitcoins and early miners would get a free pass: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply A more rational setup would be a fixed rate of supply though time, so in 2750 the % increase in supply is a tiny fraction of overall supply but the absolute number would be the same as 2012. Instead they picked a fixed target number of bit-coins which eventually creates deflation as bitcoins can be lost which destroys them.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        I notice it isn't smooth, yes. But I don't see your point. I am aware that BitCoin has a deflationary economic model which favour early adopters.

dekz 14y ago

You're meant to move to making money from processing transactions than mining for new coins, but that's still far from now.

rmc 14y ago
That assumes BitCoin takes off and becomes popular. Which has not been the case yet.
- narcissus 14y ago
  How do we determine 'popular', though? According to http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ there were 3.5M Bitcoins sent in the last 24 hours. MtGox has them at $6.50 each at the moment. I wouldn't consider $22M worth of transactions in the last 24 hours 'unpopular'...
  - ErikHuisman 14y ago
    So, if i move my funds between bank accounts a few times a day i can create a popular multi million euro economy? I don't think 3,5m * $6,50 is the correct measurement of popularity.
    - narcissus 14y ago
      I guess if you think that people are just moving Bitcoins around to bump up those numbers, then maybe it's not really measuring anything... I honestly don't know the best way to measure popularity, but I'd love to hear a good way to do so. Until then, well, for me at least, that seems to be the best way to try and work it out. How else do you judge popularity of a currency other than by how much it's being used?
      - rmc 14y ago
        I honestly don't know the best way to measure popularity, but I'd love to hear a good way to do so If it can be used in a lot of places. Currently, it can't.
      - Retric 14y ago
        Popularity relates to total value so ~9million coins * 6$ a coin = 54 million in total value which is minuscule in therms of global finance. But, number of places you can spend it also counts and there is just not many places selling bit-coins. Even though it would seem like an easy way to launder drug money it's still just a toy.
        narcissus 14y ago
        I don't want to sound as though I'm arguing for arguments sake, and I really have no dog in this fight. But using the argument of 'size in terms of global finance' would surely render most currencies other than say USD, the Euro and a couple of Asian currencies as 'not popular', wouldn't it? To be honest, I look at the total above of $54M and think "transactions over 24 hours worth $22M for a currency whose entire value is $54M... that seems liquid at least" (for my pathetic understanding of economics). To me, it seems as though there is a lot of activity within the currency itself, which to me says its popular in the circles that use it. Arguing that it's not popular because of its size, despite the activity, would probably mean that something like the New Zealand dollar would be unpopular. But again, I bet that most NZers would disagree. So then it just comes full circle and again, I just don't know if I believe it's not popular... just maybe, it's 'nichey'?
        Retric 14y ago
        I don't know if you really want to compare the NZD to Bitcoins as the NZD is a lot bigger than you might think. Anyway, the New Zealand dollar represents 1.6% of all currency trades globally which is small but not exactly tiny. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_dollar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_dollar Their M3 is also over 200 billion. I am not sure if that's in NZD or USD but 1 NZD = 0.7901 USD so the difference is not that important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply
- vlasta2 14y ago
  And it won't become popular, because it attracts the wrong kind of people - speculative investors and bitcoin miners dreaming of becoming rich. It does not attract real buyers or sellers...

mrb 14y ago

That's correct. An HD 7970 (about $400) will mine $2.20/day currently. That's $66/month. But for a starving student who lives in a dorm (doesn't pay directly his electricity), with a gaming video card, $66/month is nothing to sneeze at.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

"They" don't make it more difficult, it's collectively decided by the network based on the rate of production, IIRC.

Retric 14y ago
Nope, there are cliffs where the total number of bit-coins produced per day drop off a cliff. It's a silly idea designed to make early 'investors' lot's of money at the cost of making the entire system be less stable, and worth less money.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  You realise there is no central control, right? The system can lag though, and if someone build a large rig and turned it on, that might have had an effect.
  - Retric 14y ago
    There is central control at the protocol level. Look at a chart of total bitcoins over time and note it's not smooth: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/File:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/File:Total_bitcoins_over_time_gra... Why was it setup like that? Well it was decided rather than having a fixed rate of supply though time there would be a target number of total bitcoins and early miners would get a free pass: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply A more rational setup would be a fixed rate of supply though time, so in 2750 the % increase in supply is a tiny fraction of overall supply but the absolute number would be the same as 2012. Instead they picked a fixed target number of bit-coins which eventually creates deflation as bitcoins can be lost which destroys them.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      I notice it isn't smooth, yes. But I don't see your point. I am aware that BitCoin has a deflationary economic model which favour early adopters.