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Your specialized scenarios with gravel and snow are… interesting, but very misleading. A few inches of loose snow pushed up in front of your wheel does does not

Your specialized scenarios with gravel and snow are… interesting, but very misleading. A few inches of loose snow pushed up in front of your wheel does does nothing measurable to stop the car over staying within static friction, and if you aren’t already sinking into the snow, chances are that it’s packed too hard for this trick anyway. A thick layer of shifting gravel on the other hand stops you even without brakes, which is why we use it for emergency runaway truck ramps. I’d need to see some data to support if fully blocked wheels make a difference there - and even then, it would be a vehicle weight and tread-specific edge-case. > ABS extends braking distances. This is a very common and dangerous misunderstanding based on comparing the wrong datapoints. If your edge cases was true, it would still be wrong the majority of the time. The best brake distance is always achieved by riding the brake a hair before any wheel locks up. ABS does not affect this - it might try to stop you from increasing brake pressure further past the limit of lock up, but it will not release pressure. Locked wheels on the other hand always give you the worst possible braking distance short of forgetting to press the brake. ABS shortens the brake distance from disaster to reasonable by managing wheel lockup when you did not, managing each wheel independently which you cannot, at speeds that a brake pedal does not allow, and using full-vehicle data you do not have available. The mistake is to compare a perfectly modulated brake maneuver with a panic brake maneuver. What you need to compare is “perfect vs perfect” and “panic vs panic”.

dotancohen 2y ago
> The best brake distance is always achieved by riding the brake a hair before any wheel locks up The only way to know where that limit is, is to exceed it, cut back to rolling, then ease back in. I used to do this in my old Mustangs and Thunderbirds. Then when I got an ABS Continental, I was completely unable to brake effectively without engaging the ABS. And with ABS you can not just back of enough to get the wheels rolling again. The worst was a Ford Focus with rear drum brakes and single channel ABS. One of the rear drums would lock up during normal stops (even with the wife driving, don't just assume that I'm an aggressive braker) and this would engage all four wheels ABS. This was on a brand new 2008 model and the dealership garage considered it to be normal behavior. That said, my last ICE car was an Impreza with very good brakes and decent ABS.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  On dry pavement, ABS is modulating the brakes to keep the tire rolling, it's mechanically doing threshold breaking. Did the Continental have a relatively high curb weight and relatively small tires? In conditions with reduced friction it doesn't work as well as good manual braking (but you maintain steering).
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    The Continental was much heavier than a Mustang and heavier than a Thunderbird too. It was also front wheel drive, which may have had an effect. In normal driving I never had a problem with the Continental, but I like to test the limits of my cars in the rain and that Continental was certainly harder to brake in the wet past its limits than were the Mustangs or Thunderbirds. I don't remember all the details, we're talking decades ago, but for anything other than straight line breaking I preferred cars without ABS at the time. Even if ABS ostensibly helps you steer.

dotancohen 2y ago

> The best brake distance is always achieved by riding the brake a hair before any wheel locks up The only way to know where that limit is, is to exceed it, cut back to rolling, then ease back in. I used to do this in my old Mustangs and Thunderbirds. Then when I got an ABS Continental, I was completely unable to brake effectively without engaging the ABS. And with ABS you can not just back of enough to get the wheels rolling again. The worst was a Ford Focus with rear drum brakes and single channel ABS. One of the rear drums would lock up during normal stops (even with the wife driving, don't just assume that I'm an aggressive braker) and this would engage all four wheels ABS. This was on a brand new 2008 model and the dealership garage considered it to be normal behavior. That said, my last ICE car was an Impreza with very good brakes and decent ABS.

maxerickson 2y ago
On dry pavement, ABS is modulating the brakes to keep the tire rolling, it's mechanically doing threshold breaking. Did the Continental have a relatively high curb weight and relatively small tires? In conditions with reduced friction it doesn't work as well as good manual braking (but you maintain steering).
- dotancohen 2y ago
  The Continental was much heavier than a Mustang and heavier than a Thunderbird too. It was also front wheel drive, which may have had an effect. In normal driving I never had a problem with the Continental, but I like to test the limits of my cars in the rain and that Continental was certainly harder to brake in the wet past its limits than were the Mustangs or Thunderbirds. I don't remember all the details, we're talking decades ago, but for anything other than straight line breaking I preferred cars without ABS at the time. Even if ABS ostensibly helps you steer.