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We deem vigilantes criminals because we have no way to hold them accountable if they infringe on someone's rights. Society is supposed to take an active role,

We deem vigilantes criminals because we have no way to hold them accountable if they infringe on someone's rights. Society is supposed to take an active role, but sometimes they have other priorities. Big companies getting hacked or scammed make headlines and generate FBI action. People like me, not so much.

_heimdall 2y ago
Unless I'm mistaken, we vigilantes are deemed criminals because it is, ironically, against the law to enforce the law on someone else without being granted that authority by the state. Its still not quite accurate to deem vigilantes as criminals though. Unless they've been charged and convicted they aren't technically a criminal.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > it is, ironically, against the law to enforce the law on someone else without being granted that authority by the state. Not sure why that's "ironic". Seems reasonable. Only people trained and accountable should be doing things that would violate people's civil rights and take away their freedom or possessions. Obviously the reality of our legal systems fall far short of ideal, but IMO vigilantism is not the answer to that. > Its still not quite accurate to deem vigilantes as criminals though. Unless they've been charged and convicted they aren't technically a criminal. You sound like the kind of kid who would put their hand an inch from their sibling's face and constantly utter "not touching! still not touching!" and think that you were "technically" not breaking the rules, so your behavior was ok.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    > Not sure why that's "ironic". Seems reasonable. Only people trained and accountable should be doing things that would violate people's civil rights and take away their freedom or possessions. Maybe ironic wasn't a great fit there, I stand by the rest of the comment though. I blame Alanis Morissette for my inability to recognize irony accurately. > You sound like the kind of kid who would put their hand an inch from their sibling's face and constantly utter "not touching! still not touching!" and think that you were "technically" not breaking the rules, so your behavior was ok. There's a legal definition of "criminal". Is it being an annoying little brother to think definitions are important?
  - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
    What do you do when law and justice become so disconnected that law enforcement actively ignores horrible things happening in your local community (e.g. the Pakistani rape/prostitution gangs in England, with Rotherham as central figure)? Do you just "vote better" and wait a few years for nothing to happen? Vigilantism is always a symptom of far greater problems, people don't do it just for fun and to cosplay as Batman.
- tedunangst 2y ago
  The people receiving vigilante justice aren't technically criminals, either, by that logic. You're inflicting punishment on innocent (not proven guilty) people.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Just realized I had a very meaningful typo in the last comment and its been to long to edit. I meant to say "the vigilantes" not "we vigilantes." I don't take part in it and don't condone it as long as we collectively agree to live under a legal system. I agree with you though, vigilantes are imposing "justice" on innocent people. The right to a fair trial and a jury of your peers is a really important check on power. Vigilantes skip that whole process.

_heimdall 2y ago

Unless I'm mistaken, we vigilantes are deemed criminals because it is, ironically, against the law to enforce the law on someone else without being granted that authority by the state. Its still not quite accurate to deem vigilantes as criminals though. Unless they've been charged and convicted they aren't technically a criminal.

kelnos 2y ago
> it is, ironically, against the law to enforce the law on someone else without being granted that authority by the state. Not sure why that's "ironic". Seems reasonable. Only people trained and accountable should be doing things that would violate people's civil rights and take away their freedom or possessions. Obviously the reality of our legal systems fall far short of ideal, but IMO vigilantism is not the answer to that. > Its still not quite accurate to deem vigilantes as criminals though. Unless they've been charged and convicted they aren't technically a criminal. You sound like the kind of kid who would put their hand an inch from their sibling's face and constantly utter "not touching! still not touching!" and think that you were "technically" not breaking the rules, so your behavior was ok.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  > Not sure why that's "ironic". Seems reasonable. Only people trained and accountable should be doing things that would violate people's civil rights and take away their freedom or possessions. Maybe ironic wasn't a great fit there, I stand by the rest of the comment though. I blame Alanis Morissette for my inability to recognize irony accurately. > You sound like the kind of kid who would put their hand an inch from their sibling's face and constantly utter "not touching! still not touching!" and think that you were "technically" not breaking the rules, so your behavior was ok. There's a legal definition of "criminal". Is it being an annoying little brother to think definitions are important?
- BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
  What do you do when law and justice become so disconnected that law enforcement actively ignores horrible things happening in your local community (e.g. the Pakistani rape/prostitution gangs in England, with Rotherham as central figure)? Do you just "vote better" and wait a few years for nothing to happen? Vigilantism is always a symptom of far greater problems, people don't do it just for fun and to cosplay as Batman.
tedunangst 2y ago
The people receiving vigilante justice aren't technically criminals, either, by that logic. You're inflicting punishment on innocent (not proven guilty) people.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Just realized I had a very meaningful typo in the last comment and its been to long to edit. I meant to say "the vigilantes" not "we vigilantes." I don't take part in it and don't condone it as long as we collectively agree to live under a legal system. I agree with you though, vigilantes are imposing "justice" on innocent people. The right to a fair trial and a jury of your peers is a really important check on power. Vigilantes skip that whole process.