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This isn't really a constructive way to look at the problem and I'm saying this as a former coach. If it was as simple as just eat less and exercise, everyone w

This isn't really a constructive way to look at the problem and I'm saying this as a former coach. If it was as simple as just eat less and exercise, everyone would do it. The thing is, it's not. It might be for you, in which case good for you, but a lot of people have been brought up with absolutely disastrous food habits, mental triggers for stress eating, etc, and all of these are ingrained in their body. It's often to the point that the way their body functions is fundamentally different from how it does for other people. Biological signals, their amplitude, how your brain perceives them, it's all way off. All of this is a very long winded way to say: these people are unwell and rather than criticize them for being lazy or unwilling, we need to support them. Many (most?) of them come from an environment where they had very little say in achieving a positive outcome and now they're stuck with what they got. Breaking out of it is hard — statistically nearly all eat less and exercise regimes fail. Rewiring your body isn't an easy thing to do.

samdunham 2y ago
But it IS as simple as eat less and exercise. And no, not everyone would do it. Everyone isn't doing it. Because people are lazy, want instant gratification, and consequence-free eating habits. If 99.9999% of the people taking these drugs were to cut their caloric intake to something reasonable (1500-2000 calories per day) and exercise for half an hour to an hour a day, every single one of them would lose weight. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  This is like saying not being poor is as simple as earn more and spend less. It's simple as. It's not that people can't do this, it's that they don't want to. Hopefully you can see how absurd this framing is.
  - dbcucismavahdb 2y ago
    It is very simple when you realize both these problems are very fixable with elites that care about their people and don’t seem them as things to extract resources from.
- choilive 2y ago
  And whats the problem with that? Our entire world is built upon conveniences. We don't grow or hunt our own food, or travel cross country with our own two feet, or countless other things. Its not that I can't do those things. I don't want to. I rather spend my time, physical and mental energy on the things that are more important to me. Does that make me lazy?
- consteval 2y ago
  > Because people are lazy, want instant gratification, and consequence-free eating habits. At what point does it stop being an individual problem, and a human problem? This is a global crisis. Can you really not think that maybe, maybe, the human brain and body is not built for our current world? At what point do we admit "do nothing" isn't a viable solution? At what point do we look around and see HALF of people struggling with obesity and say "okay... something is wrong here". I'm sorry, what you're saying is directly at odds with reality and I think you're only saying it because you got lucky. You don't have food addiction so it isn't real. But evidently it is. To me it's obvious. When I look around I don't see lazy people, I see an epidemic of addiction. This feels, to me, identical to smoking. Identical.
Eumenes 2y ago
I understand your argument but this supportive coddling methodology which has dominated our culture over the past few years has gotten us fatter and more unhealthy. Maybe for children or mentally ill people that is a compassionate strategy but grown adults need to accept responsibility for their actions. This rhetoric that its not their fault, or they have to rewire their bodies, is fueling this. It makes it seem like the only solution is a drug (which these companies no doubt love) and they have no free will. There are probably a few cases of genetic abnormalities, but lets be real, most users of these drugs are eating too much garbage. They know it too. I think shame is a valuable tool in this regard. A public health campaign by the CDC mocking fat people would probably do wonders. I'm talking billboards and creative art installations.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  A considerable part of modern culture and industry revolves around shaming people for not being slim, clearly it is not having the effect you describe since the problem is getting worse. No one says people should be coddled, but saying just eat less is as useful as saying just stop being poor.
  - Eumenes 2y ago
    > saying just eat less is as useful as saying just stop being poor. how is that the same? eating less doesn't cost you more money .. it actually cost you less. so if you have the means to eat alot, you have the means to eat less. if you're a minimum wage worker and you need to make 3-4x that to get by, that is nearly impossible. eating less doesn't require a degree or a large network or requires you to relocate to the SF bay area. the only thing it requires is discipline and we know money can't buy that (source: all fat celebrities taking ozempic despite having world class chefs/trainers/gyms).

samdunham 2y ago

But it IS as simple as eat less and exercise. And no, not everyone would do it. Everyone isn't doing it. Because people are lazy, want instant gratification, and consequence-free eating habits. If 99.9999% of the people taking these drugs were to cut their caloric intake to something reasonable (1500-2000 calories per day) and exercise for half an hour to an hour a day, every single one of them would lose weight. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to.

Etheryte 2y ago
This is like saying not being poor is as simple as earn more and spend less. It's simple as. It's not that people can't do this, it's that they don't want to. Hopefully you can see how absurd this framing is.
- dbcucismavahdb 2y ago
  It is very simple when you realize both these problems are very fixable with elites that care about their people and don’t seem them as things to extract resources from.
choilive 2y ago
And whats the problem with that? Our entire world is built upon conveniences. We don't grow or hunt our own food, or travel cross country with our own two feet, or countless other things. Its not that I can't do those things. I don't want to. I rather spend my time, physical and mental energy on the things that are more important to me. Does that make me lazy?
consteval 2y ago
> Because people are lazy, want instant gratification, and consequence-free eating habits. At what point does it stop being an individual problem, and a human problem? This is a global crisis. Can you really not think that maybe, maybe, the human brain and body is not built for our current world? At what point do we admit "do nothing" isn't a viable solution? At what point do we look around and see HALF of people struggling with obesity and say "okay... something is wrong here". I'm sorry, what you're saying is directly at odds with reality and I think you're only saying it because you got lucky. You don't have food addiction so it isn't real. But evidently it is. To me it's obvious. When I look around I don't see lazy people, I see an epidemic of addiction. This feels, to me, identical to smoking. Identical.

Eumenes 2y ago

I understand your argument but this supportive coddling methodology which has dominated our culture over the past few years has gotten us fatter and more unhealthy. Maybe for children or mentally ill people that is a compassionate strategy but grown adults need to accept responsibility for their actions. This rhetoric that its not their fault, or they have to rewire their bodies, is fueling this. It makes it seem like the only solution is a drug (which these companies no doubt love) and they have no free will. There are probably a few cases of genetic abnormalities, but lets be real, most users of these drugs are eating too much garbage. They know it too. I think shame is a valuable tool in this regard. A public health campaign by the CDC mocking fat people would probably do wonders. I'm talking billboards and creative art installations.

Etheryte 2y ago
A considerable part of modern culture and industry revolves around shaming people for not being slim, clearly it is not having the effect you describe since the problem is getting worse. No one says people should be coddled, but saying just eat less is as useful as saying just stop being poor.
- Eumenes 2y ago
  > saying just eat less is as useful as saying just stop being poor. how is that the same? eating less doesn't cost you more money .. it actually cost you less. so if you have the means to eat alot, you have the means to eat less. if you're a minimum wage worker and you need to make 3-4x that to get by, that is nearly impossible. eating less doesn't require a degree or a large network or requires you to relocate to the SF bay area. the only thing it requires is discipline and we know money can't buy that (source: all fat celebrities taking ozempic despite having world class chefs/trainers/gyms).