4 ms·

Hmm what's your point? I'd think they're under time pressure, and if they see they can't fool you, they'll immediately proceed with the next target instead. (Re

Hmm what's your point? I'd think they're under time pressure, and if they see they can't fool you, they'll immediately proceed with the next target instead. (Regardless of if they're working for themselves or being trafficked & forced)

ben_w 2y ago
If they're a good person in a bad place, a union can help — and I suspect that if the calls are monitored, the villains who coerce them will want to avoid future calls to a number that regularly undermines their authority over those they traffic. On the other hand, the examples people commonly share of where someone contacts a knowing scammer to appeal to their humanity, is that the scammers laugh at their victims — so if the people on the phone are the villains, then I think them hanging up immediately may cause more emotional pain than the stream of expletives they're used to. Regardless, it saves me time. This approach may not be so useful now that GenAI, both LLMs and synthetic voices, are getting good.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  > This approach may not be so useful now that GenAI, both LLMs and synthetic voices, are getting good. They are getting REALLY good, it is the old "it is photoshopped" except with sound. The problem though is not being able to differentiate, especially not the people scammers usually target (the elderly). You cannot believe your own eyes AND ears now, sadly. It might sound dramatic, but it takes "trust no one and nothing" to a whole new level.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Mm, indeed. I expect that, at some point in my lifetime, bio-printing and tissue culture will probably reach the point we can't even have trust in real life, not even with fingerprints and a DNA test. Will this happen before or after we become post-scarcity? I don't know.
- bluGill 2y ago
  A union cannot help them. They generally are in places where there isn't a better option. Go on strike, we will just find someone else to replace you. Unions work when you are hard to replace. (hard is a trade off between many things, not just the cost of training someone new; but also things like the legal climate or future strikes)
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Unions also give you a team that is rooting for you (even the mere psychological aspect can be surprisingly valuable), and potentially access to a legal fund.
    - lupire 2y ago
      You are really arguing that slaves in a region with no functioning legal system should join a union?
      - ben_w 2y ago
        That's a description of the Russian revolution, I think? Wasn't that serfdom at the time? Also literal slaves working together, even if you'd not call it a union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution

ben_w 2y ago

If they're a good person in a bad place, a union can help — and I suspect that if the calls are monitored, the villains who coerce them will want to avoid future calls to a number that regularly undermines their authority over those they traffic. On the other hand, the examples people commonly share of where someone contacts a knowing scammer to appeal to their humanity, is that the scammers laugh at their victims — so if the people on the phone are the villains, then I think them hanging up immediately may cause more emotional pain than the stream of expletives they're used to. Regardless, it saves me time. This approach may not be so useful now that GenAI, both LLMs and synthetic voices, are getting good.

johnisgood 2y ago
> This approach may not be so useful now that GenAI, both LLMs and synthetic voices, are getting good. They are getting REALLY good, it is the old "it is photoshopped" except with sound. The problem though is not being able to differentiate, especially not the people scammers usually target (the elderly). You cannot believe your own eyes AND ears now, sadly. It might sound dramatic, but it takes "trust no one and nothing" to a whole new level.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Mm, indeed. I expect that, at some point in my lifetime, bio-printing and tissue culture will probably reach the point we can't even have trust in real life, not even with fingerprints and a DNA test. Will this happen before or after we become post-scarcity? I don't know.
bluGill 2y ago
A union cannot help them. They generally are in places where there isn't a better option. Go on strike, we will just find someone else to replace you. Unions work when you are hard to replace. (hard is a trade off between many things, not just the cost of training someone new; but also things like the legal climate or future strikes)
- ben_w 2y ago
  Unions also give you a team that is rooting for you (even the mere psychological aspect can be surprisingly valuable), and potentially access to a legal fund.
  - lupire 2y ago
    You are really arguing that slaves in a region with no functioning legal system should join a union?
    - ben_w 2y ago
      That's a description of the Russian revolution, I think? Wasn't that serfdom at the time? Also literal slaves working together, even if you'd not call it a union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution