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I’m fine with a war on scammers getting out of control to the point where bombs are being dropped on scammers call centres. They are the modern Hostis humani g

I’m fine with a war on scammers getting out of control to the point where bombs are being dropped on scammers call centres. They are the modern Hostis humani generis

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
Really, really sounds like you don’t have many real problems in your life and don’t know who to blame for societal issues. People here will lament about the exploited H1Bs causing literal genocides at Meta until the cows come home, but literally other any person working a job they don’t necessarily like and in a living situation that’s undoubtedly worse deserve to be literally bombed because they sent you a text message. Jesus Christ.
- dumpsterdiver 2y ago
  Do you… know what the word literally means?
cutemonster 2y ago
Seems you didn't know that lots of people in scam call centers aren't there voluntarily. Trafficking and threats > ... lured to countries through fake job adverts but are instead forced to work in scam call centers, pushing cryptocurrency investments, as well as work-from-home, lottery, romance, and online gambling scams. All this, while being subject to "abject abuse." > A report from Interpol from earlier this year said victims are also subjected to extortion via debt bondage, beatings, sexual exploitation ... https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/08/human_trafficking_for_cyber_scam/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/08/human_trafficking_for... and: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thousands-trafficked-into-se-asia-scam-centres-un-2023-08-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thousand...
- ben_w 2y ago
  Mm. For what it's worth, I can get them to hang up immediately if I recommend they join a trade union.
  - mnw21cam 2y ago
    People who are the victims in a controlling relationship will usually say things that the controller wants them to say, even when the controller is not there. Ask me how I know.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      I can well believe it, and my sympathies to you. Hopefully the suggestion gave them an idea to reflect on later — I don't know of anything better that can be done when on the receiving end of a phone call.
      - mnw21cam 2y ago
        I think you're probably right. I came to the opinion a while ago that one of the very best things you can do to help someone who is a victim of a controlling relationship is to tell them things that are indisputably true in such a way that they can ignore you if they aren't ready to hear it or are unable to respond, but so that their mind will have something to chew on and slowly form the roots of a rediscovery of truth.
        lo_zamoyski 2y ago
        This is what I did with a scammer. He kept rationalizing his theft, claiming he's just taking "a little" from many people who are well off and wouldn't miss it. Of course, not only is that bullshit, but it wouldn't justify the theft even if it were true. I appealed to his conscience, sternly, and didn't give him an inch. I ended the conversation by wishing that he will come to renounce his evil ways. The very fact that he didn't hangup, that he felt he had to explain away his guilt to me (a few times) shows that he himself wasn't convinced of his rationalization and that he himself believed he was doing something wrong. I can only hope that the guilt gnawed its way into his conscious and that the worm that never dies led him to rethink his life and to pick up some honest work. May the guilty lose sleep, and may their ill-gotten goods taste of ash, and thus be led to remorse and reform and the righteous path. This is love of neighbor.
    - 2y ago
ben_w 2y ago
chii wrote: "What happens if it wasn't so obvious?" Is Musk a scammer? Bitcoin? The commission Apple charges on the App Store? The Fortnight monetisation system? Facebook's claim to be able to accurately target adverts? Vaccines and masks? OpenAI? People on this website have said so about each of those examples. That is why it's bad to go down that path.
- throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
  To answer your question, No they aren't. Until the REAL scammers are brought down, people will take actions into their own hands.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question If the question's answer was obvious and resolving false then none would have been described thusly, if it was obvious and resolving true then you wouldn't be denying it. Merely asserting that they are not, in your opinion (though hey, look at those legal cases they have between them…) does nothing to remove the fact that they have been called this. It also does nothing to help with the lack of legitimacy of vigilantes. Nor, in this case, jurisdiction: part of the problem here is international cooperation, because right now the USA (where the victim is) and China (where the gang is) are a bit chilly towards each other. > people will take actions into their own hands. Amateurs sending a bomb their way? That's one way to describe how WW1 started.
  - bigallen 2y ago
    I think the point they’re trying to make is that determining who is a criminal and what kind of punishment they deserve is a very difficult task that depends largely on perspective.
- danaris 2y ago
  The existence of a gray area in between "obviously fine" and "obviously wrong" doesn't mean that there is nothing in those outer categories. It is, at least hypothetically, possible to define "scammer" clearly enough that the more egregious and clear-cut types are taken care of more expeditiously. Not sure if there's a way to actually enforce that better, but "it is possible to disagree over whether some things are scams" is not the same as "there's no way to agree on whether anything is a scam".
_heimdall 2y ago
You have never seen war first hand if you would be fine with starting a war over online scammers.
- newsclues 2y ago
  Maybe I have and the calls aggravated my ptsd?

I’m fine with a war on scammers getting out of control to the point where bombs are being dropped on scammers call centres. They are the modern Hostis humani generis

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago

Really, really sounds like you don’t have many real problems in your life and don’t know who to blame for societal issues. People here will lament about the exploited H1Bs causing literal genocides at Meta until the cows come home, but literally other any person working a job they don’t necessarily like and in a living situation that’s undoubtedly worse deserve to be literally bombed because they sent you a text message. Jesus Christ.

dumpsterdiver 2y ago
Do you… know what the word literally means?

cutemonster 2y ago

Seems you didn't know that lots of people in scam call centers aren't there voluntarily. Trafficking and threats > ... lured to countries through fake job adverts but are instead forced to work in scam call centers, pushing cryptocurrency investments, as well as work-from-home, lottery, romance, and online gambling scams. All this, while being subject to "abject abuse." > A report from Interpol from earlier this year said victims are also subjected to extortion via debt bondage, beatings, sexual exploitation ... https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/08/human_trafficking_for_cyber_scam/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/08/human_trafficking_for... and: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thousands-trafficked-into-se-asia-scam-centres-un-2023-08-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thousand...

ben_w 2y ago
Mm. For what it's worth, I can get them to hang up immediately if I recommend they join a trade union.
- mnw21cam 2y ago
  People who are the victims in a controlling relationship will usually say things that the controller wants them to say, even when the controller is not there. Ask me how I know.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    I can well believe it, and my sympathies to you. Hopefully the suggestion gave them an idea to reflect on later — I don't know of anything better that can be done when on the receiving end of a phone call.
    - mnw21cam 2y ago
      I think you're probably right. I came to the opinion a while ago that one of the very best things you can do to help someone who is a victim of a controlling relationship is to tell them things that are indisputably true in such a way that they can ignore you if they aren't ready to hear it or are unable to respond, but so that their mind will have something to chew on and slowly form the roots of a rediscovery of truth.
      - lo_zamoyski 2y ago
        This is what I did with a scammer. He kept rationalizing his theft, claiming he's just taking "a little" from many people who are well off and wouldn't miss it. Of course, not only is that bullshit, but it wouldn't justify the theft even if it were true. I appealed to his conscience, sternly, and didn't give him an inch. I ended the conversation by wishing that he will come to renounce his evil ways. The very fact that he didn't hangup, that he felt he had to explain away his guilt to me (a few times) shows that he himself wasn't convinced of his rationalization and that he himself believed he was doing something wrong. I can only hope that the guilt gnawed its way into his conscious and that the worm that never dies led him to rethink his life and to pick up some honest work. May the guilty lose sleep, and may their ill-gotten goods taste of ash, and thus be led to remorse and reform and the righteous path. This is love of neighbor.
  - 2y ago

ben_w 2y ago

chii wrote: "What happens if it wasn't so obvious?" Is Musk a scammer? Bitcoin? The commission Apple charges on the App Store? The Fortnight monetisation system? Facebook's claim to be able to accurately target adverts? Vaccines and masks? OpenAI? People on this website have said so about each of those examples. That is why it's bad to go down that path.

throwaway7ahgb 2y ago
To answer your question, No they aren't. Until the REAL scammers are brought down, people will take actions into their own hands.
- ben_w 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question If the question's answer was obvious and resolving false then none would have been described thusly, if it was obvious and resolving true then you wouldn't be denying it. Merely asserting that they are not, in your opinion (though hey, look at those legal cases they have between them…) does nothing to remove the fact that they have been called this. It also does nothing to help with the lack of legitimacy of vigilantes. Nor, in this case, jurisdiction: part of the problem here is international cooperation, because right now the USA (where the victim is) and China (where the gang is) are a bit chilly towards each other. > people will take actions into their own hands. Amateurs sending a bomb their way? That's one way to describe how WW1 started.
- bigallen 2y ago
  I think the point they’re trying to make is that determining who is a criminal and what kind of punishment they deserve is a very difficult task that depends largely on perspective.
danaris 2y ago
The existence of a gray area in between "obviously fine" and "obviously wrong" doesn't mean that there is nothing in those outer categories. It is, at least hypothetically, possible to define "scammer" clearly enough that the more egregious and clear-cut types are taken care of more expeditiously. Not sure if there's a way to actually enforce that better, but "it is possible to disagree over whether some things are scams" is not the same as "there's no way to agree on whether anything is a scam".

_heimdall 2y ago

You have never seen war first hand if you would be fine with starting a war over online scammers.

newsclues 2y ago
Maybe I have and the calls aggravated my ptsd?