6 ms·

Disclaimers exist for legal reasons, not for moral ones or a personal opinion. I think we all agree that hacking scammers is a net positive for society.

by peepee1982 2y ago

prepend 2y ago
I don’t think disclaimers really work. I think it’s just urban legend that they do. I find it hard to believe if some scammer is hacked and the evidence shows the hacker learned everything from solely this video then this disclaimer won’t mean anything legally. I think disclaimers are just a bit of noise that people put in out of an abundance of caution.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Out of curiosity, are you a lawyer or is this comment missing the IANAL disclaimer that is customary when opining about legal matters? At least some disclaimers aren't just noise—they add context that would otherwise be missing to help the reader navigate the subtext. The "this is not my work" portion of that disclaimer is highly relevant and useful information for interpreting the blog. The afformentioned IANAL disclaimer helps readers to understand whether your opinion has any stronger basis in law than their own. I also strongly suspect that some disclaimers would have legal value in the event of someone misusing information being dispensed, but IANAL.
  - prepend 2y ago
    I am not a lawyer, but didn’t include the disclaimer because I don’t think it’s relevant to my comment. Even were I a lawyer, it should carry the same weight. Some random, kind internet stranger sharing ideas. I think it distracts from the conversation as I wasn’t giving legal advice but just thinking about how useful and relevant disclaimers are. The comment is more about too much bullshit language used in our lives, so I think minimizing (or at least intending and attempting to) bullshit in my own comments is something I can control.
  - thinkmassive 2y ago
    When a lawyer posts on a forum topic related to the law they usually tell you they’re a lawyer, but not your lawyer and it’s not legal advice. Safe to assume everyone else is not a lawyer.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Probably safe, yes, though it's still polite to leave the marker for other people to follow later. And, to the topic at hand: if lawyers consistently do that, that again speaks to the legal value of at least some disclaimers.
      - randomdata 2y ago
        Appeal to authority is considered a courtesy nowadays? Fascinating. Like the previous commenter points out, actual lawyers are quite clear that their statements in this kind of non-professional capacity hold no more weight than any other random Joe. There is no situation of authority. IANAL/IAAL may have once been a funny meme – albeit one quite tired at this point – but doesn't add anything, and may be a detractor if one falls prey to the logically fallacy it potentially introduces.
        PawgerZ 2y ago
        Defering to an Expert =/= Appealing to Authority
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        randomdata 2y ago
        Concluding that a statement holds greater significance because it was stated by an expert === appeal to authority. The person is irrelevant. Just as lawyers regularly point out, their work done outside of a professional context is no different than work done by anyone else. Their expertise is only significant in that when work is done in a professional context they promise to go over and above to put in the proper care to ensure that the work stands up to scrutiny. But even then the work must stand alone! They cannot just throw down whatever gobbledygook and call it something notable just because they are acting as a lawyer. The person is irrelevant. As before, it used to be a funny meme – albeit one that has become tired – but there is no significance to it. Who the person is tells absolutely nothing about the rest of the comment.
  - codecutter 2y ago
    This reminded me the commercial "I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at Holiday Inn last night".
  - gosub100 2y ago
    merely being a lawyer still isn't enough. They would have to be licensed in the state in which the potential action took place, and fully informed about the circumstances.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Disclaimers can be shown in court if it comes that far. If you seem to be an expert on something but make a mistake you can get into trouble for practicing [law/medicine/...] without a license. By putting in a disclaimer you make it clear that while you seem to know something you are not claiming to be an expert which can protect you. If you actually are an expert it is even more important because someone might take your generic advice as specific even though there is some complex detail about their situation that makes it not apply. Most of the time this won't matter. People and courts generally know advice isn't to be trusted, if this goes to court it will probably be laughed out before they even see your disclaimer. However since there is trusted advice on the internet and courts/the law hasn't figured out where there is always risk and a disclaimer helps protect you against the court deciding you were playing an expert. Of course I'm not a lawyer, I'm only guessing as to what will happen. I'm reasonably sure no lawyer will comment on this for reasons above.
ipaddr 2y ago
Until we find out later that the scammers masked themselves using someone elses identity and they hacked an innocent person. We have all received email from a legitimate place where a scammer uses your email to spam and then legitimate company thinks your email sent it.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  "Joe job": <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job>
randomdata 2y ago
> Disclaimers exist for legal reasons, not for moral ones or a personal opinion. In other words, a scam towards the reader?
- nerdawson 2y ago
  How so? They inform the reader not to misinterpret the information as advice specific to their situation.
  - 0xdeadbeefbabe 2y ago
    Bad readers will misinterpret anyway and good readers won't. It's more about establishing author importance than serving the reader.

Disclaimers exist for legal reasons, not for moral ones or a personal opinion. I think we all agree that hacking scammers is a net positive for society.

prepend 2y ago

I don’t think disclaimers really work. I think it’s just urban legend that they do. I find it hard to believe if some scammer is hacked and the evidence shows the hacker learned everything from solely this video then this disclaimer won’t mean anything legally. I think disclaimers are just a bit of noise that people put in out of an abundance of caution.

lolinder 2y ago
Out of curiosity, are you a lawyer or is this comment missing the IANAL disclaimer that is customary when opining about legal matters? At least some disclaimers aren't just noise—they add context that would otherwise be missing to help the reader navigate the subtext. The "this is not my work" portion of that disclaimer is highly relevant and useful information for interpreting the blog. The afformentioned IANAL disclaimer helps readers to understand whether your opinion has any stronger basis in law than their own. I also strongly suspect that some disclaimers would have legal value in the event of someone misusing information being dispensed, but IANAL.
- prepend 2y ago
  I am not a lawyer, but didn’t include the disclaimer because I don’t think it’s relevant to my comment. Even were I a lawyer, it should carry the same weight. Some random, kind internet stranger sharing ideas. I think it distracts from the conversation as I wasn’t giving legal advice but just thinking about how useful and relevant disclaimers are. The comment is more about too much bullshit language used in our lives, so I think minimizing (or at least intending and attempting to) bullshit in my own comments is something I can control.
- thinkmassive 2y ago
  When a lawyer posts on a forum topic related to the law they usually tell you they’re a lawyer, but not your lawyer and it’s not legal advice. Safe to assume everyone else is not a lawyer.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Probably safe, yes, though it's still polite to leave the marker for other people to follow later. And, to the topic at hand: if lawyers consistently do that, that again speaks to the legal value of at least some disclaimers.
    - randomdata 2y ago
      Appeal to authority is considered a courtesy nowadays? Fascinating. Like the previous commenter points out, actual lawyers are quite clear that their statements in this kind of non-professional capacity hold no more weight than any other random Joe. There is no situation of authority. IANAL/IAAL may have once been a funny meme – albeit one quite tired at this point – but doesn't add anything, and may be a detractor if one falls prey to the logically fallacy it potentially introduces.
      - PawgerZ 2y ago
        Defering to an Expert =/= Appealing to Authority
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        randomdata 2y ago
        Concluding that a statement holds greater significance because it was stated by an expert === appeal to authority. The person is irrelevant. Just as lawyers regularly point out, their work done outside of a professional context is no different than work done by anyone else. Their expertise is only significant in that when work is done in a professional context they promise to go over and above to put in the proper care to ensure that the work stands up to scrutiny. But even then the work must stand alone! They cannot just throw down whatever gobbledygook and call it something notable just because they are acting as a lawyer. The person is irrelevant. As before, it used to be a funny meme – albeit one that has become tired – but there is no significance to it. Who the person is tells absolutely nothing about the rest of the comment.
- codecutter 2y ago
  This reminded me the commercial "I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at Holiday Inn last night".
- gosub100 2y ago
  merely being a lawyer still isn't enough. They would have to be licensed in the state in which the potential action took place, and fully informed about the circumstances.
bluGill 2y ago
Disclaimers can be shown in court if it comes that far. If you seem to be an expert on something but make a mistake you can get into trouble for practicing [law/medicine/...] without a license. By putting in a disclaimer you make it clear that while you seem to know something you are not claiming to be an expert which can protect you. If you actually are an expert it is even more important because someone might take your generic advice as specific even though there is some complex detail about their situation that makes it not apply. Most of the time this won't matter. People and courts generally know advice isn't to be trusted, if this goes to court it will probably be laughed out before they even see your disclaimer. However since there is trusted advice on the internet and courts/the law hasn't figured out where there is always risk and a disclaimer helps protect you against the court deciding you were playing an expert. Of course I'm not a lawyer, I'm only guessing as to what will happen. I'm reasonably sure no lawyer will comment on this for reasons above.

ipaddr 2y ago

Until we find out later that the scammers masked themselves using someone elses identity and they hacked an innocent person. We have all received email from a legitimate place where a scammer uses your email to spam and then legitimate company thinks your email sent it.

dredmorbius 2y ago
"Joe job": <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job>

randomdata 2y ago

> Disclaimers exist for legal reasons, not for moral ones or a personal opinion. In other words, a scam towards the reader?

nerdawson 2y ago
How so? They inform the reader not to misinterpret the information as advice specific to their situation.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 2y ago
  Bad readers will misinterpret anyway and good readers won't. It's more about establishing author importance than serving the reader.