6 ms·

macOS Sequoia adds weekly permission promptfor screenshot, screen recording apps

45 points by jtbayly 2y ago

cl42 2y ago
> Having to click through these confirmation nags every week, for every such utility you use, is not a little thing at all. It’s the sort of thing companies do when decisions like this are made by people looking to cover their asses, not make insanely great products. ... or alternatively, when agreeing to using such an app is such a huge privacy nightmare that it might just be safer (for the user) to ask the user to opt-in every week, especially if the company which runs the OS is known for promoting a privacy-friendly brand.
- jtbayly 2y ago
  I mean, sure, if you want BigTechCo to be your nanny, and not just let you use your computer, I guess that makes sense. I prefer for my computer to give me sensible warnings and then let me make a decision, rather than refuse to allow my decision to stand. Perhaps if the shoe were on the other foot, and Apple asked you every week if you were sure you wanted to backup to iCloud unencrypted, given that it is at least as much of a security and privacy nightmare, you’d be singing a different tune.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  Maybe the best thing here is to not run software that you don't trust. Why would you run sketchy software on your computer in the first place? It's like having a bully picking on you, and then instead of getting help or fighting back, you negotiate a deal to just start giving him free punches to your face and access to your bank account.
  - zarmin 2y ago
    The problem isn't the _user's_ trust in the software....
  - jtbayly 2y ago
    It appears you’ve never needed to take screenshots or screen recordings, and cannot comprehend those who want access to such functionality being anything but idiots. If I choose to use software I do trust, why does the OS have to ask me “Are you sure?” every single week for the rest of my life?
  - kube-system 2y ago
    > Why would you run sketchy software on your computer in the first place? Most people don't run sketchy software on their computer intentionally. Typically they are fooled or are otherwise unaware. The vast majority of people who use computers do not have the ability to accurately determine whether or not software is "sketchy" all by themselves. They need the help of others. This is that.
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
I wonder what my personal breaking point is with macOS. Apple already sells chronically underpowered hardware compared to the competition and you have to just be content with the fact that it's attractive hardware, silent, and sips power instead of chugging it like the others. But Ubuntu is becoming more attractive as time goes on.
- blacksmith_tb 2y ago
  Underpowered? Other than the lack of upgradability/repairability, the Apple Si machines seem pretty powerful, it's just the steady slide of macOS towards being a locked-down toy with a tablet UI that makes me edge towards the Linux world.
  - reaperman 2y ago
    Yeah the unified memory model is amazing for running LLMs locally (albeit slowly). Otherwise the CPU is pretty darn impressive.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- kube-system 2y ago
  I try Ubuntu on a new laptop every couple of years, and I still keep going back to a Mac. There's one thing I can count on with Macs that I haven't yet experienced on any Ubuntu laptop: I can pull it out of a backpack the day after I charged it and work an 8 hour day on battery, using a trackpad, without sacrificing productivity or my hand getting sore. Apple just has too many advantages in hardware driver performance due to vertical integration.
dlivingston 2y ago
> I think it shows just how much care and thoughtfulness went into turning up the dial on these nags that the button label incorrectly capitalizes the “to” in “Continue To Allow”. You can say, well, that’s a little thing. But that’s exactly the sort of little thing that almost never shipped from Apple, even in beta, until the last few years. > Having to click through these confirmation nags every week, for every such utility you use, is not a little thing at all. It’s the sort of thing companies do when decisions like this are made by people looking to cover their asses, not make insanely great products. I share Gruber's same sentiment. It makes me sad, as a longtime Mac fan, to witness the slow degradation of the platform. The polish, care, and thoughtfulness of earlier versions of OS X was, from my outside perspective, downstream of cultural and leadership conditions that no longer exist at Apple. I fully expect macOS to continue sliding in quality unless and until some cultural reset happens... which is to say, I'm not holding my breath.
- grishka 2y ago
  Unfortunately Apple can afford to do that because modern Windows is a much, much worse overall experience.
  - GoToRO 2y ago
    I only saw glaring UI bugs when I was issued a mac from work. Returning to Windows was heaven.
    - brailsafe 2y ago
      Oh c'mon you can't be serious. Windows being heaven is like LA being a good city.
      - GoToRO 2y ago
        The bar is low, but somehow mac is even worse than windows. I had this screen to set new password. The tooltips that detailed the password requirements were shown off the edge of the screen, unable to read them. White text on white background. No default windows (heh) management. You have to enable right click in settings (what?!!). Their own silly mouse can not stay connected on bt to their own laptop. A cheap mouse worked better. And on and on...
nozzlegear 2y ago
Perhaps it'd be better if these were just weekly, non-intrusive notifications ¹ (instead of prompt dialogs) that said something like "hey, this app can still record your screen, head to Settings to revoke that permission." ¹ Insert your own definition of non-intrusive notification.
- eviks 2y ago
  non-intrusive notification is the one I don't notice, ie, no notification
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
benjaminpv 2y ago
Apple, start your photocopiers and you'll see why 2024 won't be like 2007[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control
dangus 2y ago
I generally agree that this is annoying but look at the flip side of this: From a security perspective the average user is probably getting scammed by a whole lot of apps that ask for screen recording permissions once and abuse it. There’s no way in hell your user interface-blind retired mom or dad is noticing the little screen recording icon. There are a lot of users who legitimately need to have this reminder because they install all kinds of privacy invading software. I’m sure that in the future the nag will be adjusted to strike the right balance.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
heavyset_go 2y ago
Will Apple's own apps issue this weekly permission prompt?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- NotPractical 2y ago
  I have a feeling this might be a rhetorical question, but in case it isn't: the answer is no. Apple apps get special permissions, as per usual in the Apple ecosystem. Apple apps are automatically granted screen recording permission and can bypass the screen recording indicator entirely.
  - heavyset_go 2y ago
    Your feeling was right, but thanks for the answer. Had a feeling that Apple wouldn't let their competitors/complements compete on a fair playing field with their own apps.
ahefner 2y ago
There's some irony in this for me personally. My most recent major "I quit Apple" rage moment was trying to get Flameshot (which I use routinely on Linux) working on my Macbook, so I could more easily take screenshots, just to share something with a friend, because the built-in screenshot functionality in MacOS is so clunky. Between Gatekeeper and the XCode upgrade train, Mac OS's dogged insistence on not letting me run the software I wanted it to run worked me into a rage and I swear I'll never buy another Mac for casual daily computing again. They've really ruined the OS.
- spott 2y ago
  I’m curious: what is so clunky about the built in screenshot app? I don’t doubt you, I’ve just never had that experience, and I’m curious what I’m missing.
  - faizmokh 2y ago
    Based on FlameShot app, it seems like his/her use case is more towards taking a screenshot & edit them at the same time.
- Aaron2222 2y ago
  Could you elaborate more on the issues you ran into? Could you not just download their pre-compiled version and bypass Gatekeeper in the normal way?
- malshe 2y ago
  I use the built-in screenshot function almost daily for years. Clunky is opposite of my experience with it so I’m curious what you mean by that.
  - xenospn 2y ago
    Same. It’s one of my most used features. Shortcut -> select area -> paste wherever. It just works.
Aaron2222 2y ago
First it was the orange/green dot in the corner of the screen for microphone/webcam (even in full-screen, much to the annoyance of anyone putting something on a projector). Then it was a full menu bar icon, with an added purple one for anytime something was doing screen recording (very annoying if you use software that regularly needs to do this, like Bartender[0] needed to for Bartender Bar and Show for Updates). I seriously hope this can be disabled, or at least is just one pop-up per week that covers all the applications, as otherwise it's going to be very annoying. [0]: I have since moved to Ice, which has been less buggy.
ksec 2y ago
This is going to be an unpopular opinion. But I really like the old Hardware solution to the WebCam. In order for the Webcam to be activated, it must pass through the LED and showing a green dot. Switching it to software actually make me feel less protected knowing how fragile our software are.
m-p-3 2y ago
That's going to be fun for remote software assistance apps in the corporate world.. Hopefully this can be avoided if the device is in supervised mode.

45 points by jtbayly 2y ago

cl42 2y ago

> Having to click through these confirmation nags every week, for every such utility you use, is not a little thing at all. It’s the sort of thing companies do when decisions like this are made by people looking to cover their asses, not make insanely great products. ... or alternatively, when agreeing to using such an app is such a huge privacy nightmare that it might just be safer (for the user) to ask the user to opt-in every week, especially if the company which runs the OS is known for promoting a privacy-friendly brand.

jtbayly 2y ago
I mean, sure, if you want BigTechCo to be your nanny, and not just let you use your computer, I guess that makes sense. I prefer for my computer to give me sensible warnings and then let me make a decision, rather than refuse to allow my decision to stand. Perhaps if the shoe were on the other foot, and Apple asked you every week if you were sure you wanted to backup to iCloud unencrypted, given that it is at least as much of a security and privacy nightmare, you’d be singing a different tune.
olyjohn 2y ago
Maybe the best thing here is to not run software that you don't trust. Why would you run sketchy software on your computer in the first place? It's like having a bully picking on you, and then instead of getting help or fighting back, you negotiate a deal to just start giving him free punches to your face and access to your bank account.
- zarmin 2y ago
  The problem isn't the _user's_ trust in the software....
- jtbayly 2y ago
  It appears you’ve never needed to take screenshots or screen recordings, and cannot comprehend those who want access to such functionality being anything but idiots. If I choose to use software I do trust, why does the OS have to ask me “Are you sure?” every single week for the rest of my life?
- kube-system 2y ago
  > Why would you run sketchy software on your computer in the first place? Most people don't run sketchy software on their computer intentionally. Typically they are fooled or are otherwise unaware. The vast majority of people who use computers do not have the ability to accurately determine whether or not software is "sketchy" all by themselves. They need the help of others. This is that.

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

I wonder what my personal breaking point is with macOS. Apple already sells chronically underpowered hardware compared to the competition and you have to just be content with the fact that it's attractive hardware, silent, and sips power instead of chugging it like the others. But Ubuntu is becoming more attractive as time goes on.

blacksmith_tb 2y ago
Underpowered? Other than the lack of upgradability/repairability, the Apple Si machines seem pretty powerful, it's just the steady slide of macOS towards being a locked-down toy with a tablet UI that makes me edge towards the Linux world.
- reaperman 2y ago
  Yeah the unified memory model is amazing for running LLMs locally (albeit slowly). Otherwise the CPU is pretty darn impressive.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
kube-system 2y ago
I try Ubuntu on a new laptop every couple of years, and I still keep going back to a Mac. There's one thing I can count on with Macs that I haven't yet experienced on any Ubuntu laptop: I can pull it out of a backpack the day after I charged it and work an 8 hour day on battery, using a trackpad, without sacrificing productivity or my hand getting sore. Apple just has too many advantages in hardware driver performance due to vertical integration.

dlivingston 2y ago

> I think it shows just how much care and thoughtfulness went into turning up the dial on these nags that the button label incorrectly capitalizes the “to” in “Continue To Allow”. You can say, well, that’s a little thing. But that’s exactly the sort of little thing that almost never shipped from Apple, even in beta, until the last few years. > Having to click through these confirmation nags every week, for every such utility you use, is not a little thing at all. It’s the sort of thing companies do when decisions like this are made by people looking to cover their asses, not make insanely great products. I share Gruber's same sentiment. It makes me sad, as a longtime Mac fan, to witness the slow degradation of the platform. The polish, care, and thoughtfulness of earlier versions of OS X was, from my outside perspective, downstream of cultural and leadership conditions that no longer exist at Apple. I fully expect macOS to continue sliding in quality unless and until some cultural reset happens... which is to say, I'm not holding my breath.

grishka 2y ago
Unfortunately Apple can afford to do that because modern Windows is a much, much worse overall experience.
- GoToRO 2y ago
  I only saw glaring UI bugs when I was issued a mac from work. Returning to Windows was heaven.
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    Oh c'mon you can't be serious. Windows being heaven is like LA being a good city.
    - GoToRO 2y ago
      The bar is low, but somehow mac is even worse than windows. I had this screen to set new password. The tooltips that detailed the password requirements were shown off the edge of the screen, unable to read them. White text on white background. No default windows (heh) management. You have to enable right click in settings (what?!!). Their own silly mouse can not stay connected on bt to their own laptop. A cheap mouse worked better. And on and on...

nozzlegear 2y ago

Perhaps it'd be better if these were just weekly, non-intrusive notifications ¹ (instead of prompt dialogs) that said something like "hey, this app can still record your screen, head to Settings to revoke that permission." ¹ Insert your own definition of non-intrusive notification.

eviks 2y ago
non-intrusive notification is the one I don't notice, ie, no notification
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

benjaminpv 2y ago

Apple, start your photocopiers and you'll see why 2024 won't be like 2007[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control

dangus 2y ago

I generally agree that this is annoying but look at the flip side of this: From a security perspective the average user is probably getting scammed by a whole lot of apps that ask for screen recording permissions once and abuse it. There’s no way in hell your user interface-blind retired mom or dad is noticing the little screen recording icon. There are a lot of users who legitimately need to have this reminder because they install all kinds of privacy invading software. I’m sure that in the future the nag will be adjusted to strike the right balance.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

heavyset_go 2y ago

Will Apple's own apps issue this weekly permission prompt?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
NotPractical 2y ago
I have a feeling this might be a rhetorical question, but in case it isn't: the answer is no. Apple apps get special permissions, as per usual in the Apple ecosystem. Apple apps are automatically granted screen recording permission and can bypass the screen recording indicator entirely.
- heavyset_go 2y ago
  Your feeling was right, but thanks for the answer. Had a feeling that Apple wouldn't let their competitors/complements compete on a fair playing field with their own apps.

ahefner 2y ago

There's some irony in this for me personally. My most recent major "I quit Apple" rage moment was trying to get Flameshot (which I use routinely on Linux) working on my Macbook, so I could more easily take screenshots, just to share something with a friend, because the built-in screenshot functionality in MacOS is so clunky. Between Gatekeeper and the XCode upgrade train, Mac OS's dogged insistence on not letting me run the software I wanted it to run worked me into a rage and I swear I'll never buy another Mac for casual daily computing again. They've really ruined the OS.

spott 2y ago
I’m curious: what is so clunky about the built in screenshot app? I don’t doubt you, I’ve just never had that experience, and I’m curious what I’m missing.
- faizmokh 2y ago
  Based on FlameShot app, it seems like his/her use case is more towards taking a screenshot & edit them at the same time.
Aaron2222 2y ago
Could you elaborate more on the issues you ran into? Could you not just download their pre-compiled version and bypass Gatekeeper in the normal way?
malshe 2y ago
I use the built-in screenshot function almost daily for years. Clunky is opposite of my experience with it so I’m curious what you mean by that.
- xenospn 2y ago
  Same. It’s one of my most used features. Shortcut -> select area -> paste wherever. It just works.

Aaron2222 2y ago

First it was the orange/green dot in the corner of the screen for microphone/webcam (even in full-screen, much to the annoyance of anyone putting something on a projector). Then it was a full menu bar icon, with an added purple one for anytime something was doing screen recording (very annoying if you use software that regularly needs to do this, like Bartender[0] needed to for Bartender Bar and Show for Updates). I seriously hope this can be disabled, or at least is just one pop-up per week that covers all the applications, as otherwise it's going to be very annoying. [0]: I have since moved to Ice, which has been less buggy.

ksec 2y ago

This is going to be an unpopular opinion. But I really like the old Hardware solution to the WebCam. In order for the Webcam to be activated, it must pass through the LED and showing a green dot. Switching it to software actually make me feel less protected knowing how fragile our software are.

m-p-3 2y ago

That's going to be fun for remote software assistance apps in the corporate world.. Hopefully this can be avoided if the device is in supervised mode.