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That's wrong and the market has proven it. The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people - period, not just best ultrabook or best laptop. There are a

That's wrong and the market has proven it. The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people - period, not just best ultrabook or best laptop. There are almost no compromises for 99% of people's usage.

soulbadguy 2y ago
> The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people. Maybe, that it doesnt imply that it's the best because it's an ultrabook, or that a non-ultrabook version of the macbook air (not the macbook pro...) wouldn't have been better.
- wwtrv 2y ago
  To be fair from the perspective of most consumers what downsides does the Air have that are only there because it's an "ultrabook"?
Panzer04 2y ago
Well, I mean, if you ignore the 8GB RAM base model.. and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. I can make a great computer that meets everyone's use cases for 2x the going price too :). Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person to walk into a store and buy a piece of shit windows laptop for the same price as a macbook, because they don't know what they want or need and the salesmen aren't that interested in making sure you get good value :'(
- wwtrv 2y ago
  > and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. Can you actually list any of these "equivalents"? I'm actually genuinely curious Just to get this straight you're saying that you can get a Windows laptop that's just as fast, has comparable battery life and build quality as an M3 Air for $400-650 (i.e. 1/3 - 1/2 of the cheapest 16 GB Air)? Really? > Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person So could you help those of use who are not that savvy by being more specific?
  - Panzer04 2y ago
    I don't think you could find a windows laptop with comparable build quality (or display quality, which I consider important if you intend to use a laptop for its intended purpose) for 1/2 the price of the air. I do think you could find a laptop in the same performance ballpark (ie. 75%+ of the single core speed, which seems to be where the newest gen Intel mobile chips sit in comparison). This is a bigger difference than I expected, admittedly, though the gap closes if you care about multicore performance numbers. Here in AU, a 16GB air with 512GB SSD = 2400AUD. The base model (8/256)) = 1800 AUD. I would consider an appropriate comparison model to the air to be something like this: https://www.harveynorman.com.au/acer-swift-go-evo-14-inch-core-ultra-5-125h-16gb-512gb-ssd-laptop.html#productTabDescription https://www.harveynorman.com.au/acer-swift-go-evo-14-inch-co... For 1/2 the price, you get a laptop with an OLED screen and one of the newest/fastest non-M3 processors you can buy. It also happened to be the cheapest laptop with a new Meteor lake processor I could find, though I'd have to imagine there are laptops with worse specifications in other areas for the cheaper. You can obviously spend up from there to improve build quality, get more SSD space (probably by swapping out the stock NVMe drive), more RAM (if you're lucky maybe they have SODIMMs, though I'd guess most laptops, especially non-16", might have soldered memory). In terms of non-savvy vs savvy, mostly it's that a non-savvy laptop buyer, generally speaking, doesn't understand: - Screen quality/tech. Resolution, TN vs IPS vs OLED, matte vs gloss, maximum brightness - How different processor generations compare. Especially walking into a store, it's common in my experience for laptops with 5500u (Zen 2 6 core) to be sitting next to a laptop with a new eg. 125H, both at similar prices. The newer processor is the pick (performance wise), but this is completely nonobvious. It's particularly bad at lower specs, where you can have an i3 N300 (8 e cores) next to perhaps a Ryzen 5700u or Intel 13600h... In theory salespeople should lead them in the right direction, but likely as not they can spend twice as much on a fancy laptop that looks schmick (and probably is) when they could get 90% of the same experience with something like the Acer above. eg: https://www.harveynorman.com.au/hp-envy-x360-14-inch-ultra-7-155u-16gb-512gb-ssd-2-in-1-laptop-blue.html#productTabSpecifications https://www.harveynorman.com.au/hp-envy-x360-14-inch-ultra-7... This is admittedly a 2in1, and it has a better processor, but it could well be worse in every other way.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >Can you actually list any of these "equivalents"? I'm actually genuinely curious I paid ~780 Euros a year ago for a 14" Lenovo with an 8 core AMD Ryzen 7840HS, 32GB LPDDR5X and 1TB NVME, and 2560x1600 IPS display. I can't justify spending double the Euros for a Mac with less RAM and storage. I just can't. Now you can even get laptops with OLED screens for that price. Oh and best of all, the screen can open almost 180 degrees meaning I can prop it up higher on a portable flip stand for better neck ergonomics and still view the screen at a 90 degree angle VS MacBooks which can only open ~135 degrees reducing the positions at which you can use the machine as the moment I prop it up, the screen faces my chest instead of my face while opened all the way. Macs may be technically superior on paper but they have all these design quirks and limitations because they only want you to use the products in this very specific way that one design guru in Cupertino though of is the right way to use a laptop while looking cool, and I say screw that, I'm the customer, I should be able to use it however I think is best for me. If I were doing stuff like photo/video editing for a living or developing iOS or MacOS apps, a MacBook would totally be worth it due to it being better for those tasks (or the only option), but for my own use cases of web + Windows + Linux + light PC gaming, Apple's products make no sense to me especially given their prices in Europe compared to Col and wages.
eertami 2y ago
The market? I don't know a single person personally or professionally with a MacBook Air. I haven't seen one in person in like 7 years.
- piva00 2y ago
  Anecdotes don't really cut it though. I see MacBook Airs all the time, even had a MBA M1 that I handed down to my partner when I got a MBP M3, she uses it both personally and professionally. Two other friends have MBAs, a third just bought one yesterday. At cafés in Stockholm I'd say 50% of the laptops I see people working with are a version of the MBA. At local universities it's an even higher percentage.

soulbadguy 2y ago

> The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people. Maybe, that it doesnt imply that it's the best because it's an ultrabook, or that a non-ultrabook version of the macbook air (not the macbook pro...) wouldn't have been better.

wwtrv 2y ago
To be fair from the perspective of most consumers what downsides does the Air have that are only there because it's an "ultrabook"?

Panzer04 2y ago

Well, I mean, if you ignore the 8GB RAM base model.. and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. I can make a great computer that meets everyone's use cases for 2x the going price too :). Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person to walk into a store and buy a piece of shit windows laptop for the same price as a macbook, because they don't know what they want or need and the salesmen aren't that interested in making sure you get good value :'(

wwtrv 2y ago
> and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. Can you actually list any of these "equivalents"? I'm actually genuinely curious Just to get this straight you're saying that you can get a Windows laptop that's just as fast, has comparable battery life and build quality as an M3 Air for $400-650 (i.e. 1/3 - 1/2 of the cheapest 16 GB Air)? Really? > Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person So could you help those of use who are not that savvy by being more specific?
- Panzer04 2y ago
  I don't think you could find a windows laptop with comparable build quality (or display quality, which I consider important if you intend to use a laptop for its intended purpose) for 1/2 the price of the air. I do think you could find a laptop in the same performance ballpark (ie. 75%+ of the single core speed, which seems to be where the newest gen Intel mobile chips sit in comparison). This is a bigger difference than I expected, admittedly, though the gap closes if you care about multicore performance numbers. Here in AU, a 16GB air with 512GB SSD = 2400AUD. The base model (8/256)) = 1800 AUD. I would consider an appropriate comparison model to the air to be something like this: https://www.harveynorman.com.au/acer-swift-go-evo-14-inch-core-ultra-5-125h-16gb-512gb-ssd-laptop.html#productTabDescription https://www.harveynorman.com.au/acer-swift-go-evo-14-inch-co... For 1/2 the price, you get a laptop with an OLED screen and one of the newest/fastest non-M3 processors you can buy. It also happened to be the cheapest laptop with a new Meteor lake processor I could find, though I'd have to imagine there are laptops with worse specifications in other areas for the cheaper. You can obviously spend up from there to improve build quality, get more SSD space (probably by swapping out the stock NVMe drive), more RAM (if you're lucky maybe they have SODIMMs, though I'd guess most laptops, especially non-16", might have soldered memory). In terms of non-savvy vs savvy, mostly it's that a non-savvy laptop buyer, generally speaking, doesn't understand: - Screen quality/tech. Resolution, TN vs IPS vs OLED, matte vs gloss, maximum brightness - How different processor generations compare. Especially walking into a store, it's common in my experience for laptops with 5500u (Zen 2 6 core) to be sitting next to a laptop with a new eg. 125H, both at similar prices. The newer processor is the pick (performance wise), but this is completely nonobvious. It's particularly bad at lower specs, where you can have an i3 N300 (8 e cores) next to perhaps a Ryzen 5700u or Intel 13600h... In theory salespeople should lead them in the right direction, but likely as not they can spend twice as much on a fancy laptop that looks schmick (and probably is) when they could get 90% of the same experience with something like the Acer above. eg: https://www.harveynorman.com.au/hp-envy-x360-14-inch-ultra-7-155u-16gb-512gb-ssd-2-in-1-laptop-blue.html#productTabSpecifications https://www.harveynorman.com.au/hp-envy-x360-14-inch-ultra-7... This is admittedly a 2in1, and it has a better processor, but it could well be worse in every other way.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Can you actually list any of these "equivalents"? I'm actually genuinely curious I paid ~780 Euros a year ago for a 14" Lenovo with an 8 core AMD Ryzen 7840HS, 32GB LPDDR5X and 1TB NVME, and 2560x1600 IPS display. I can't justify spending double the Euros for a Mac with less RAM and storage. I just can't. Now you can even get laptops with OLED screens for that price. Oh and best of all, the screen can open almost 180 degrees meaning I can prop it up higher on a portable flip stand for better neck ergonomics and still view the screen at a 90 degree angle VS MacBooks which can only open ~135 degrees reducing the positions at which you can use the machine as the moment I prop it up, the screen faces my chest instead of my face while opened all the way. Macs may be technically superior on paper but they have all these design quirks and limitations because they only want you to use the products in this very specific way that one design guru in Cupertino though of is the right way to use a laptop while looking cool, and I say screw that, I'm the customer, I should be able to use it however I think is best for me. If I were doing stuff like photo/video editing for a living or developing iOS or MacOS apps, a MacBook would totally be worth it due to it being better for those tasks (or the only option), but for my own use cases of web + Windows + Linux + light PC gaming, Apple's products make no sense to me especially given their prices in Europe compared to Col and wages.

eertami 2y ago

The market? I don't know a single person personally or professionally with a MacBook Air. I haven't seen one in person in like 7 years.

piva00 2y ago
Anecdotes don't really cut it though. I see MacBook Airs all the time, even had a MBA M1 that I handed down to my partner when I got a MBP M3, she uses it both personally and professionally. Two other friends have MBAs, a third just bought one yesterday. At cafés in Stockholm I'd say 50% of the laptops I see people working with are a version of the MBA. At local universities it's an even higher percentage.