4 ms·

This study really annoys me. I'm doing keto and its helped tremendously including consuming a TON of erythitol. The amount of bad press low carb diets and artif

This study really annoys me. I'm doing keto and its helped tremendously including consuming a TON of erythitol. The amount of bad press low carb diets and artificial sugars get don't account for the simple fact that - if they didn't exist people like myself would be WAY worse off. I'll keep taking my chances with these sweeteners vs going back to my old eating ways which would 100% send me to the ER from a heart attack or similar.

galdosdi 2y ago
Why would you need to consume any erythitol at all to be on a keto diet anyway? Doesn't keto mean no or few carbs or no simple carbs or something like that? You can just focus on eating animal proteins, fats, fiber (vegetables) etc. Not sure where sweetener comes into it? You keep linking "low carb" with "artificial sugars" but I don't think it takes any particular self control to just cut sweeteners of both the natural and artificial kind out. I can understand if you have some specific recipes that are sweet that you loved from before keto and wanted to just recreate them, but why bother? Why not just switch to recipes that don't need it at all and avoid the hassle? Eat beans, cabbage, beef, eggs, yogurt, the list is endless. A delicious nutritious varied diet is easy to accomplish without resorting to junk food, processed food, or weird modern chemicals invented recently, so I really don't know why anyone bothers messing around instead of just sticking to the tried and true. What exactly is so disgusting to you about a nice steak with a side of sauteed green beans and pinto beans? Or an omelette made with cream and avocado and tomato and onion and bacon? Can you really just not stand a nice chicken soup with peas, carrots, onions, garlics, and leeks? Maybe a roasted sweet potato if that isn't too carby for your personal understanding of keto? Mmmmm how about a salad from one of those fast casual salad places with lots of veggies and some roasted chicken, beans, and a good fatty dressing and avocado? I'm getting so hungry! I've never done keto but I've tried cutting all sweeteners and simple carbs out many times (allowing whole complex grains and tubers like corn, brown rice, potatos) and it's always been easy and required no more will power than the will power needed to actually cook for yourself (with some takeout as feasible, but that depends on your finances and your location-- much of the USA is tough for eating healthy outside of your kitchen) I'm just baffled by this idea that sweeteners are a necessity. I don't think you have a very broad palate and need to expand it.
- jbm 2y ago
  > I don't think it takes any particular self control to just cut sweeteners of both the natural and artificial kind out It does.
- rachofsunshine 2y ago
  I'm going to give this (rather hostile and dismissive) comment the benefit of the doubt, and answer it with the idea that you really don't understand this and that you want to. >>> Why would you need to consume any erythitol at all to be on a keto diet anyway? Because making lifestyle changes often involves finding ways to make those changes tolerable within your own levels of motivation and stress-tolerance. >>> I don't think it takes any particular self control to just cut sweeteners of both the natural and artificial kind out. It may not for you, but I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of the population wants to eat sweet things sometimes. They would consider it a major quality-of-life loss to not be able to do so. >>> Why not just switch to recipes that don't need it at all and avoid the hassle? Perhaps they've tried and haven't found ones they like. Perhaps they're not a skilled cook, or lack the appropriate facilities for good home cooking. Perhaps they don't have a lot of time to cook for themselves, or money to eat out, and they just eat what they've got around. >>> What exactly is so disgusting to you about a nice steak with a side of sauteed green beans and pinto beans? Well, speaking for myself: I don't like green beans or pinto beans. I'd also point out that there is excellent health evidence to suggest the consumption of red meat is detrimental to health. So why aren't you cutting out the steak? (Perhaps because you enjoy the steak and are willing to make some trade-offs of optimum health for personal life enjoyment?) >>> but I've tried cutting all sweeteners and simple carbs out many times and it's always been easy Yes, nothing says "it's easy" like "I've tried it many times". That aside, though: something that is easy for you may not be easy for me or for someone else, and vice-versa. How hard something is is not an objective quantity conserved across all people. The most obvious example of that is physical disability ("going up stairs is so easy? why can't you just stand up and climb?"), but motivational and hedonic needs also vary dramatically from one person to another.
  - doctorpangloss 2y ago
    Well no one replying to this thread is a doctor. Maybe the question is, why not go ask a doctor for what to do about diet and exercise related health problems?
zamadatix 2y ago
I'm both diabetic and have a clotting disorder (among other problems life throws us) and, while I often get annoyed at the press on medical reporting, I don't nearly as often get annoyed at the studies themselves. While it's important to weight the benefits vs the downsides (the piece most media reporting is missing when talking about these matters) we really on studies like this to do that weighing.
- dawnerd 2y ago
  Exactly. I'm not annoyed that it might be found to be bad, like that would be great to know. But I want to know, is it worse for me than the alternative (sugar, lets be real).
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    I don't think there is a way to answer that question beyond indirectly via findings of the ways things are bad from studies like these. E.g. how bad real sugar is for me is going to look like an answer from another planet compared to the same question for my wife.
Mordisquitos 2y ago
You're almost certainly right that consuming artificial sweeteners is orders of magniture healthier for you than it would be to consume the sweetness-equivalent dosage of sugar. The interesting question is whether not consuming artificial sweeteners nor sugar would be significantly healthier than consuming artificial sweeteners in such an amount.
- slaymaker1907 2y ago
  I don't know, erythritol is the one where they found this alarming association when they weren't even expecting it. Couple that with new research showing that the effect occurred *in every subject* and I personally think there's enough evidence to say that there is no known safe amount of erythritol to consume. These studies look extremely different than your typical "hur dur, XYZ is toxic or ABC is a superfood!!!" garbage studies.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
zacharyvoase 2y ago
I wouldn't get annoyed at the study—they're trying to discover objective facts about the world, and it is very important to know that a commonly-accepted sugar substitute causes a drastic and long-lasting increase in clotting behavior after consumption. What you do with that information is up to you.
- bookaway 2y ago
  To add to that, they seem to have anticipated the OP's reaction since it was mirrored by the Calorie Control Council (industry cartel?) and are literally saying: if the study is sound and if you are worried about clotting or heart disease you need to watch your intake. This is because they claim the amount that was used was the same amount in common sugar-free sodas. If the OP is saying their intake is way higher than that and that the only way they can reduce that is to return to their old sugar habit and become clinically obese, then yeah, without additional information I guess it's better to stay on sweeteners. But if you're escaping a burning building and are in danger of getting hit by a car when doing so, the course of action is to avoid getting hit by the car -- not run back into the burning building or wait till the car hits you. If you live in a place with accessible healthcare (easy access, fast appointments, or cheap, depending on your criteria) you should just keep tabs on your heart at least.

galdosdi 2y ago

Why would you need to consume any erythitol at all to be on a keto diet anyway? Doesn't keto mean no or few carbs or no simple carbs or something like that? You can just focus on eating animal proteins, fats, fiber (vegetables) etc. Not sure where sweetener comes into it? You keep linking "low carb" with "artificial sugars" but I don't think it takes any particular self control to just cut sweeteners of both the natural and artificial kind out. I can understand if you have some specific recipes that are sweet that you loved from before keto and wanted to just recreate them, but why bother? Why not just switch to recipes that don't need it at all and avoid the hassle? Eat beans, cabbage, beef, eggs, yogurt, the list is endless. A delicious nutritious varied diet is easy to accomplish without resorting to junk food, processed food, or weird modern chemicals invented recently, so I really don't know why anyone bothers messing around instead of just sticking to the tried and true. What exactly is so disgusting to you about a nice steak with a side of sauteed green beans and pinto beans? Or an omelette made with cream and avocado and tomato and onion and bacon? Can you really just not stand a nice chicken soup with peas, carrots, onions, garlics, and leeks? Maybe a roasted sweet potato if that isn't too carby for your personal understanding of keto? Mmmmm how about a salad from one of those fast casual salad places with lots of veggies and some roasted chicken, beans, and a good fatty dressing and avocado? I'm getting so hungry! I've never done keto but I've tried cutting all sweeteners and simple carbs out many times (allowing whole complex grains and tubers like corn, brown rice, potatos) and it's always been easy and required no more will power than the will power needed to actually cook for yourself (with some takeout as feasible, but that depends on your finances and your location-- much of the USA is tough for eating healthy outside of your kitchen) I'm just baffled by this idea that sweeteners are a necessity. I don't think you have a very broad palate and need to expand it.

jbm 2y ago
> I don't think it takes any particular self control to just cut sweeteners of both the natural and artificial kind out It does.
rachofsunshine 2y ago
I'm going to give this (rather hostile and dismissive) comment the benefit of the doubt, and answer it with the idea that you really don't understand this and that you want to. >>> Why would you need to consume any erythitol at all to be on a keto diet anyway? Because making lifestyle changes often involves finding ways to make those changes tolerable within your own levels of motivation and stress-tolerance. >>> I don't think it takes any particular self control to just cut sweeteners of both the natural and artificial kind out. It may not for you, but I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of the population wants to eat sweet things sometimes. They would consider it a major quality-of-life loss to not be able to do so. >>> Why not just switch to recipes that don't need it at all and avoid the hassle? Perhaps they've tried and haven't found ones they like. Perhaps they're not a skilled cook, or lack the appropriate facilities for good home cooking. Perhaps they don't have a lot of time to cook for themselves, or money to eat out, and they just eat what they've got around. >>> What exactly is so disgusting to you about a nice steak with a side of sauteed green beans and pinto beans? Well, speaking for myself: I don't like green beans or pinto beans. I'd also point out that there is excellent health evidence to suggest the consumption of red meat is detrimental to health. So why aren't you cutting out the steak? (Perhaps because you enjoy the steak and are willing to make some trade-offs of optimum health for personal life enjoyment?) >>> but I've tried cutting all sweeteners and simple carbs out many times and it's always been easy Yes, nothing says "it's easy" like "I've tried it many times". That aside, though: something that is easy for you may not be easy for me or for someone else, and vice-versa. How hard something is is not an objective quantity conserved across all people. The most obvious example of that is physical disability ("going up stairs is so easy? why can't you just stand up and climb?"), but motivational and hedonic needs also vary dramatically from one person to another.
- doctorpangloss 2y ago
  Well no one replying to this thread is a doctor. Maybe the question is, why not go ask a doctor for what to do about diet and exercise related health problems?

zamadatix 2y ago

I'm both diabetic and have a clotting disorder (among other problems life throws us) and, while I often get annoyed at the press on medical reporting, I don't nearly as often get annoyed at the studies themselves. While it's important to weight the benefits vs the downsides (the piece most media reporting is missing when talking about these matters) we really on studies like this to do that weighing.

dawnerd 2y ago
Exactly. I'm not annoyed that it might be found to be bad, like that would be great to know. But I want to know, is it worse for me than the alternative (sugar, lets be real).
- zamadatix 2y ago
  I don't think there is a way to answer that question beyond indirectly via findings of the ways things are bad from studies like these. E.g. how bad real sugar is for me is going to look like an answer from another planet compared to the same question for my wife.

Mordisquitos 2y ago

You're almost certainly right that consuming artificial sweeteners is orders of magniture healthier for you than it would be to consume the sweetness-equivalent dosage of sugar. The interesting question is whether not consuming artificial sweeteners nor sugar would be significantly healthier than consuming artificial sweeteners in such an amount.

slaymaker1907 2y ago
I don't know, erythritol is the one where they found this alarming association when they weren't even expecting it. Couple that with new research showing that the effect occurred *in every subject* and I personally think there's enough evidence to say that there is no known safe amount of erythritol to consume. These studies look extremely different than your typical "hur dur, XYZ is toxic or ABC is a superfood!!!" garbage studies.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

zacharyvoase 2y ago

I wouldn't get annoyed at the study—they're trying to discover objective facts about the world, and it is very important to know that a commonly-accepted sugar substitute causes a drastic and long-lasting increase in clotting behavior after consumption. What you do with that information is up to you.

bookaway 2y ago
To add to that, they seem to have anticipated the OP's reaction since it was mirrored by the Calorie Control Council (industry cartel?) and are literally saying: if the study is sound and if you are worried about clotting or heart disease you need to watch your intake. This is because they claim the amount that was used was the same amount in common sugar-free sodas. If the OP is saying their intake is way higher than that and that the only way they can reduce that is to return to their old sugar habit and become clinically obese, then yeah, without additional information I guess it's better to stay on sweeteners. But if you're escaping a burning building and are in danger of getting hit by a car when doing so, the course of action is to avoid getting hit by the car -- not run back into the burning building or wait till the car hits you. If you live in a place with accessible healthcare (easy access, fast appointments, or cheap, depending on your criteria) you should just keep tabs on your heart at least.