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The NVidia software stack has the "no use in datacenters" clause. Is this a workaround for that?

by londons_explore 2y ago

why_only_15 2y ago
Specifically the clause is that you cannot use their consumer cards (e.g. RTX 4090) in datacenters.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  That's why we run all of our ML workloads in a distributed GPU cluster located in every employee's house
  - pplante 2y ago
    The bonus is free heating for every employees household!
    - rurban 2y ago
      Free cooling also. You cannot really run a big GPU with external cooling. I needed rather big 15cm isolated cooling tubes to get the heat out of the building.
  - seniorThrowaway 2y ago
    you joke but I've thought about doing this
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    The employees can also store their desktops in specially cooled, centrally located lockers at work if they want. And as a perk, we’ll buy and administrate these computers for them.
paulmd 2y ago
use the open kernel driver, which is MIT/GPL and thus cannot impose usage restrictions. it's worth noting that "NVIDIA software stack" is an imprecise term. the driver is the part that has the datacenter usage term, and the open-kernel-driver bypasses that. the CUDA stack itself does not have the datacenter driver clause, the only caveat is that you can't run it on third-party hardware. So ZLUDA/GpuOcelot is still verboten, if you are using the CUDA libraries. https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/eula/index.html https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/eula/index.html
- mike64_t 2y ago
  To what degree the GeForce software license is applicable even if you don't download the GeForce driver is debatable. It technically governs all software downloadable from nvidia.com including CUDA. The fact that you are only presented with the CUDA license while downloading might not stop Nvidia's lawyers. You might be safe as a consumer against EULAs without the ability to review and reject, but as a company, this might not slide.
mike64_t 2y ago
It seems to me at least, yes. You still need ptxas, but this piece of Software technically isn't deployed in the datacenter, if you AOT compile your kernels. Its usage seems more than fine, especially considering you could just run it on a system without Nvidia GPUs or old Tesla GPUs while still targeting eg. sm_89. If using ptxas compiled kernels in the datacenter counts as indirect datacenter usage, I don't know. Also, technically you are never presented with the GeForce software license during the CUDA download and installation process, which sparks the question if it is even applicable. In this case, all you would need is the open source driver and you could stuff as many consumer GPUs in your datacenter as you want. However, it technically governs all software downloadable from nvidia.com. I'm no legal expert if this matters, but I would assume consumers would be fine, but companies may be held to a higher standard of seeking out licenses which might govern what they are about to use.

The NVidia software stack has the "no use in datacenters" clause. Is this a workaround for that?

why_only_15 2y ago

Specifically the clause is that you cannot use their consumer cards (e.g. RTX 4090) in datacenters.

candiddevmike 2y ago
That's why we run all of our ML workloads in a distributed GPU cluster located in every employee's house
- pplante 2y ago
  The bonus is free heating for every employees household!
  - rurban 2y ago
    Free cooling also. You cannot really run a big GPU with external cooling. I needed rather big 15cm isolated cooling tubes to get the heat out of the building.
- seniorThrowaway 2y ago
  you joke but I've thought about doing this
- bee_rider 2y ago
  The employees can also store their desktops in specially cooled, centrally located lockers at work if they want. And as a perk, we’ll buy and administrate these computers for them.

paulmd 2y ago

use the open kernel driver, which is MIT/GPL and thus cannot impose usage restrictions. it's worth noting that "NVIDIA software stack" is an imprecise term. the driver is the part that has the datacenter usage term, and the open-kernel-driver bypasses that. the CUDA stack itself does not have the datacenter driver clause, the only caveat is that you can't run it on third-party hardware. So ZLUDA/GpuOcelot is still verboten, if you are using the CUDA libraries. https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/eula/index.html https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/eula/index.html

mike64_t 2y ago
To what degree the GeForce software license is applicable even if you don't download the GeForce driver is debatable. It technically governs all software downloadable from nvidia.com including CUDA. The fact that you are only presented with the CUDA license while downloading might not stop Nvidia's lawyers. You might be safe as a consumer against EULAs without the ability to review and reject, but as a company, this might not slide.

mike64_t 2y ago

It seems to me at least, yes. You still need ptxas, but this piece of Software technically isn't deployed in the datacenter, if you AOT compile your kernels. Its usage seems more than fine, especially considering you could just run it on a system without Nvidia GPUs or old Tesla GPUs while still targeting eg. sm_89. If using ptxas compiled kernels in the datacenter counts as indirect datacenter usage, I don't know. Also, technically you are never presented with the GeForce software license during the CUDA download and installation process, which sparks the question if it is even applicable. In this case, all you would need is the open source driver and you could stuff as many consumer GPUs in your datacenter as you want. However, it technically governs all software downloadable from nvidia.com. I'm no legal expert if this matters, but I would assume consumers would be fine, but companies may be held to a higher standard of seeking out licenses which might govern what they are about to use.