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honest question, people who use zero calorie sweeteners might also be people who were otherwise engaging in unhealthy habits. For example, fast food workers wi

honest question, people who use zero calorie sweeteners might also be people who were otherwise engaging in unhealthy habits. For example, fast food workers will tell you that regulars order unhealthy items along with "diet coke" typically. I haven't read this research but do they account for biases like this?

mensetmanusman 2y ago
They do the best they can, but it’s actually impossible to do the real scientific method with human participants without going all Frankenstein crazy. Keep in mind these are relatively minor effects, kind of like how not walking for at least an hour a day will shorten your total lifespan by a measurable bit, but people are living so long that only a small number care.
ranger_danger 2y ago
Sure, they might, but I think it could be equally likely that many people who drink it just want to lose weight or not have so much actual sugar, not that they're necessarily already engaging in unhealthy habits.
Etheryte 2y ago
I'm not sure if the premise holds. Most of the people I know who use sugar replacements or consume products with them are from the fitness crowd.
rachofsunshine 2y ago
Here's [1] a biochemist talking about an erythritol study (didn't check if it's the same one, but it's the same claimed symptom). They controlled for the obvious risk factors (though with the usual caveats that controlling for things is hard), and they have a claimed mechanism of action: > But we seem to have spotted a toxic effect now. This latest paper shows that plasma erythritol levels actually make a good predictor of major cardiovascular trouble (heart attack/MI, stroke, CV-associated deaths). In 1,157 patients volunteers undergoing three-year longitudinal evaluation, the patients in the highest quartile of plasma erythritol concentration were very strong outliers for CV events. That correlation holds up after controlling for all sorts of other dietary and physical variables (weight, age, gender, known cardiovascular risk factors, and more). And on top of that, the authors demonstrate a surprising but extremely plausible explanation for these findings: erythritol, in both in vitro and in vivo assays, enhances platelet aggregation. > ...I myself will be studiously avoiding it from here on until someone can convince me it’s safe. You may feel similarly after looking at the evidence. There are also other studies (same chemist in [2]) claiming the same effect for xylitol, another related sugar alcohol. ----- [1] https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol [2] https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/and-now-xylitol https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/and-now-xylitol
deleted 2y ago
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nabla9 2y ago
There has been previous observational studies for erythritol, but this was not was not an observational study. It was straight forward experiment. They gave small group of people drink with erythritol and observed (P<0.0001) in everyone really big increase in markers for TRAP6 that activates thrombin receptors responsible for the coagulation. erythritol -> coagulation link was direct. When you combine it with observational studies in larger populations. It harder to explain them away with other habits and conditions. >The present studies suggest that following ingestion of an artificially sweetened food harboring typical levels of erythritol as artificial sweetener, plasma levels of erythritol remain elevated for many days, well above the thresholds necessary to enhance stimulus-dependent platelet reactivity, even among healthy volunteers. . .This is of concern given that the very subjects for whom artificial sweeteners are marketed (patients with diabetes, obesity, history of CVD and impaired kidney function) are those typically at higher risk for future CVD events https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol
- notepad0x90 2y ago
  Thanks for explaining that. Hard to argue against direct evidence I guess.

mensetmanusman 2y ago

They do the best they can, but it’s actually impossible to do the real scientific method with human participants without going all Frankenstein crazy. Keep in mind these are relatively minor effects, kind of like how not walking for at least an hour a day will shorten your total lifespan by a measurable bit, but people are living so long that only a small number care.

ranger_danger 2y ago

Sure, they might, but I think it could be equally likely that many people who drink it just want to lose weight or not have so much actual sugar, not that they're necessarily already engaging in unhealthy habits.

Etheryte 2y ago

I'm not sure if the premise holds. Most of the people I know who use sugar replacements or consume products with them are from the fitness crowd.

rachofsunshine 2y ago

Here's [1] a biochemist talking about an erythritol study (didn't check if it's the same one, but it's the same claimed symptom). They controlled for the obvious risk factors (though with the usual caveats that controlling for things is hard), and they have a claimed mechanism of action: > But we seem to have spotted a toxic effect now. This latest paper shows that plasma erythritol levels actually make a good predictor of major cardiovascular trouble (heart attack/MI, stroke, CV-associated deaths). In 1,157 patients volunteers undergoing three-year longitudinal evaluation, the patients in the highest quartile of plasma erythritol concentration were very strong outliers for CV events. That correlation holds up after controlling for all sorts of other dietary and physical variables (weight, age, gender, known cardiovascular risk factors, and more). And on top of that, the authors demonstrate a surprising but extremely plausible explanation for these findings: erythritol, in both in vitro and in vivo assays, enhances platelet aggregation. > ...I myself will be studiously avoiding it from here on until someone can convince me it’s safe. You may feel similarly after looking at the evidence. There are also other studies (same chemist in [2]) claiming the same effect for xylitol, another related sugar alcohol. ----- [1] https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol [2] https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/and-now-xylitol https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/and-now-xylitol

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

nabla9 2y ago

There has been previous observational studies for erythritol, but this was not was not an observational study. It was straight forward experiment. They gave small group of people drink with erythritol and observed (P<0.0001) in everyone really big increase in markers for TRAP6 that activates thrombin receptors responsible for the coagulation. erythritol -> coagulation link was direct. When you combine it with observational studies in larger populations. It harder to explain them away with other habits and conditions. >The present studies suggest that following ingestion of an artificially sweetened food harboring typical levels of erythritol as artificial sweetener, plasma levels of erythritol remain elevated for many days, well above the thresholds necessary to enhance stimulus-dependent platelet reactivity, even among healthy volunteers. . .This is of concern given that the very subjects for whom artificial sweeteners are marketed (patients with diabetes, obesity, history of CVD and impaired kidney function) are those typically at higher risk for future CVD events https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/trouble-erythritol

notepad0x90 2y ago
Thanks for explaining that. Hard to argue against direct evidence I guess.