11 ms·

> Ultrabooks aren't a terrible concept; they're the Wintel version of Macbook Airs. I'd say both are a terrible concept. I mean, it sells, but it's still terri

> Ultrabooks aren't a terrible concept; they're the Wintel version of Macbook Airs. I'd say both are a terrible concept. I mean, it sells, but it's still terrible. A laptop being thin is not really such a virtue and people's life would be better with a decent-travel keyboard, better heat dissipation and more ports than with 5-10mm less laptop height.

paganel 2y ago
I don't really care that much about brands nor laptops for that matter, but my M1 Air is really, really nice given the money I've paid for it. Why should I burden myself with carrying a big laptop thing when I can instead carry a Macbook Air that is much lighter and which does very good job?
Almondsetat 2y ago
Who are you to say what would make people's lives better?
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  An actual computer user who's probably at least as qualified as whoever made these decisions at Intel.
  - Almondsetat 2y ago
    I'm an actual computer user and I disagree. Now what?
    - fredoliveira 2y ago
      Now, hopefully, we all come to a simple realization: opinions vary.
wtallis 2y ago
Heat dissipation and lots of ports are why I have a desktop. I don't want that from my MacBook Air. A fan isn't necessary or desirable for a machine that is primarily used for web browsing, watching movies, and light gaming.
- saulpw 2y ago
  You know what I want for my desktop, is a battery, so my computer doesn't reboot when I lose power for 5 seconds. Yes I know about UPSes, but they're $100+ and unwieldy. I just need 30 seconds grace period to save my work! This is the main reason why I probably won't get a desktop again.
  - chmod775 2y ago
    Amortized cost of a desktop is like 1/3rd that of a laptop of comparable performance. You're willing to pay thousands more because you don't want to pay for an UPS? This doesn't check out. The space argument makes more sense and from that I assume you're in a space constrained apartment. At the end of day I'm more curious what causes those intermittent power outages. Are you regularly tripping breakers?
    - saulpw 2y ago
      It happens twice a year, it goes out neighborhood-wide during a storm or an animal chewed through something. Anyway I don't know where you get that "amortized cost" number. They seem a lot closer in price than that to me.
      - Panzer04 2y ago
        Depends on the class of performance you want. I think at the low end laptops are surprisingly cost-competitive with desktops, but if you want high-end laptops either don't exist or are hilariously expensive. Also depends on the type of laptop. A desktop-replacement laptop with extremely basic frame and screen (ie. cheap and shit) can have excellent specs at a competitive price, whereas an XPS or mac with a great screen, aluminium frame etc will be very expensive relative to the specification.
askafriend 2y ago
That's wrong and the market has proven it. The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people - period, not just best ultrabook or best laptop. There are almost no compromises for 99% of people's usage.
- soulbadguy 2y ago
  > The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people. Maybe, that it doesnt imply that it's the best because it's an ultrabook, or that a non-ultrabook version of the macbook air (not the macbook pro...) wouldn't have been better.
  - wwtrv 2y ago
    To be fair from the perspective of most consumers what downsides does the Air have that are only there because it's an "ultrabook"?
- Panzer04 2y ago
  Well, I mean, if you ignore the 8GB RAM base model.. and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. I can make a great computer that meets everyone's use cases for 2x the going price too :). Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person to walk into a store and buy a piece of shit windows laptop for the same price as a macbook, because they don't know what they want or need and the salesmen aren't that interested in making sure you get good value :'(
  - wwtrv 2y ago
    > and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. Can you actually list any of these "equivalents"? I'm actually genuinely curious Just to get this straight you're saying that you can get a Windows laptop that's just as fast, has comparable battery life and build quality as an M3 Air for $400-650 (i.e. 1/3 - 1/2 of the cheapest 16 GB Air)? Really? > Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person So could you help those of use who are not that savvy by being more specific?
soulbadguy 2y ago
There is nothing wrong about the concept of ultrabook. Just terrible implementation.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  The implementation is left up to the OEMs but they seem to have done pretty well. Thin and lights are in a pretty good spot overall. Have people forgotten how bad laptops were in like 2010? Great big chunks of plastic that somehow still feel cheap and weightless, keyboard flex, mushy keys. They were really quite bad.
katbyte 2y ago
I would have agreed with you a couple months ago, but picked up an air for travel so I could leave the 15” MBP at home and I’m really enjoying it and appreciating how thin and light it is. Wouldn’t want it for home or office use but for occasional on the go use? Perfect. And I imagine for many it would suite their needs pretty well
- blackoil 2y ago
  Thin and Light are two independent variables, you can make a lightweight PC which still has good keyboard, thermals, repairable and ports by making it few mm thick. Its utility on the go comes primarily from weight and not thinness.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    I travel frequently. Thinness is absolutely a significant mobility factor. I actually hate thinness for the sake of being thin, I want practical amounts of USB-A ports and a god damn headphone jack. But a thinner laptop is easier to stow in my luggage and handle in space-limited environments like a hotel room desk or a seat table in an airliner or lounge. Likewise, I don't want a chungus portable phone from 1993, but I also want my smartphone to be thick enough to reasonably grasp and have a headphone jack. This is also putting aside the fact that most people in general clearly prefer thinner and lighter computing over thicker and/or heavier. There are times and places for a bigly desktop replacement tabletop heavy enough to crush your kneecaps and hot enough to burn your skin, but most people don't need that.
  - katbyte 2y ago
    Sure but thin and compact are also good for travel as it can slide into bag pocket easy or even a large purse and not take up much room.
- sharpshadow 2y ago
  The new MacBook Air design is really fantastic.
- einpoklum 2y ago
wwtrv 2y ago
> people's life would be better with a decent-travel keyboard Most people don't generally seem to agree with that, though (not explicitly, they just generally don't prioritize things like that)

paganel 2y ago

I don't really care that much about brands nor laptops for that matter, but my M1 Air is really, really nice given the money I've paid for it. Why should I burden myself with carrying a big laptop thing when I can instead carry a Macbook Air that is much lighter and which does very good job?

Almondsetat 2y ago

Who are you to say what would make people's lives better?

PaulHoule 2y ago
An actual computer user who's probably at least as qualified as whoever made these decisions at Intel.
- Almondsetat 2y ago
  I'm an actual computer user and I disagree. Now what?
  - fredoliveira 2y ago
    Now, hopefully, we all come to a simple realization: opinions vary.

wtallis 2y ago

Heat dissipation and lots of ports are why I have a desktop. I don't want that from my MacBook Air. A fan isn't necessary or desirable for a machine that is primarily used for web browsing, watching movies, and light gaming.

saulpw 2y ago
You know what I want for my desktop, is a battery, so my computer doesn't reboot when I lose power for 5 seconds. Yes I know about UPSes, but they're $100+ and unwieldy. I just need 30 seconds grace period to save my work! This is the main reason why I probably won't get a desktop again.
- chmod775 2y ago
  Amortized cost of a desktop is like 1/3rd that of a laptop of comparable performance. You're willing to pay thousands more because you don't want to pay for an UPS? This doesn't check out. The space argument makes more sense and from that I assume you're in a space constrained apartment. At the end of day I'm more curious what causes those intermittent power outages. Are you regularly tripping breakers?
  - saulpw 2y ago
    It happens twice a year, it goes out neighborhood-wide during a storm or an animal chewed through something. Anyway I don't know where you get that "amortized cost" number. They seem a lot closer in price than that to me.
    - Panzer04 2y ago
      Depends on the class of performance you want. I think at the low end laptops are surprisingly cost-competitive with desktops, but if you want high-end laptops either don't exist or are hilariously expensive. Also depends on the type of laptop. A desktop-replacement laptop with extremely basic frame and screen (ie. cheap and shit) can have excellent specs at a competitive price, whereas an XPS or mac with a great screen, aluminium frame etc will be very expensive relative to the specification.

askafriend 2y ago

That's wrong and the market has proven it. The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people - period, not just best ultrabook or best laptop. There are almost no compromises for 99% of people's usage.

soulbadguy 2y ago
> The M3 MacBook Air is the best computer for most people. Maybe, that it doesnt imply that it's the best because it's an ultrabook, or that a non-ultrabook version of the macbook air (not the macbook pro...) wouldn't have been better.
- wwtrv 2y ago
  To be fair from the perspective of most consumers what downsides does the Air have that are only there because it's an "ultrabook"?
Panzer04 2y ago
Well, I mean, if you ignore the 8GB RAM base model.. and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. I can make a great computer that meets everyone's use cases for 2x the going price too :). Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person to walk into a store and buy a piece of shit windows laptop for the same price as a macbook, because they don't know what they want or need and the salesmen aren't that interested in making sure you get good value :'(
- wwtrv 2y ago
  > and the pricetag at 2-3x a similarly-performing windows equivalent, and probably +50% on similar screen windows equivalent. Can you actually list any of these "equivalents"? I'm actually genuinely curious Just to get this straight you're saying that you can get a Windows laptop that's just as fast, has comparable battery life and build quality as an M3 Air for $400-650 (i.e. 1/3 - 1/2 of the cheapest 16 GB Air)? Really? > Unfortunately it is far too easy for a non-savvy person So could you help those of use who are not that savvy by being more specific?

soulbadguy 2y ago

There is nothing wrong about the concept of ultrabook. Just terrible implementation.

bee_rider 2y ago
The implementation is left up to the OEMs but they seem to have done pretty well. Thin and lights are in a pretty good spot overall. Have people forgotten how bad laptops were in like 2010? Great big chunks of plastic that somehow still feel cheap and weightless, keyboard flex, mushy keys. They were really quite bad.

katbyte 2y ago

I would have agreed with you a couple months ago, but picked up an air for travel so I could leave the 15” MBP at home and I’m really enjoying it and appreciating how thin and light it is. Wouldn’t want it for home or office use but for occasional on the go use? Perfect. And I imagine for many it would suite their needs pretty well

blackoil 2y ago
Thin and Light are two independent variables, you can make a lightweight PC which still has good keyboard, thermals, repairable and ports by making it few mm thick. Its utility on the go comes primarily from weight and not thinness.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  I travel frequently. Thinness is absolutely a significant mobility factor. I actually hate thinness for the sake of being thin, I want practical amounts of USB-A ports and a god damn headphone jack. But a thinner laptop is easier to stow in my luggage and handle in space-limited environments like a hotel room desk or a seat table in an airliner or lounge. Likewise, I don't want a chungus portable phone from 1993, but I also want my smartphone to be thick enough to reasonably grasp and have a headphone jack. This is also putting aside the fact that most people in general clearly prefer thinner and lighter computing over thicker and/or heavier. There are times and places for a bigly desktop replacement tabletop heavy enough to crush your kneecaps and hot enough to burn your skin, but most people don't need that.
- katbyte 2y ago
  Sure but thin and compact are also good for travel as it can slide into bag pocket easy or even a large purse and not take up much room.
sharpshadow 2y ago
The new MacBook Air design is really fantastic.
einpoklum 2y ago

wwtrv 2y ago

> people's life would be better with a decent-travel keyboard Most people don't generally seem to agree with that, though (not explicitly, they just generally don't prioritize things like that)