4 ms·

Kubernetes isn't even that complicated, and first party support from cloud providers often means you're doing something in K8s inleu of doing it in a cloud spec

Kubernetes isn't even that complicated, and first party support from cloud providers often means you're doing something in K8s inleu of doing it in a cloud specific way (like ingress vs cloud specific load balancer setups). At a certain scale, K8s is the simple option. I think much of the hate on HN comes from the "ruby on rails is all you need" crowd.

JohnMakin 2y ago
> I think much of the hate on HN comes from the "ruby on rails is all you need" crowd. Maybe - people seem really gungho about serverless solutions here too
- dexwiz 2y ago
  The hype for serverless cooled after that article about Prime Video dropping lambda. No one wants a product that a company won’t dogfood. I realize Amazon probably uses lambda elsewhere, but it was still a bad look.
  - LordKeren 2y ago
    I think it was much more about one specific use case of lambda that was a bad fit for the prime video team’s need and not a rejection of lambda/serverless. TBH, it kind of reflected more poorly on the team than lambda as a product
  - cmckn 2y ago
    > Amazon probably uses lambda elsewhere Yes, you could say that. :)
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    not probably, their lambda service powers much of their control plane.
eutropia 2y ago
I guess the ones who quietly ship dozens of rails apps on k8s are too busy getting shit done to stop and share their boring opinions about pragmatically choosing the right tool for the job :)
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  "But you can run your rails app on a single host with embedded SQLite, K8s is unnecessary."
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    And there is truth to that. Most deployments are at that level, and it absolutely is way more performant then the alternative. it just comes with several tradeoffs... But these tradeoffs are usually worth it for deployments with <10k concurrent users. Which Figma certainly isn't. Though you probably could still do it, but that's likely more trouble then it's worth (The 10k is just an arbitrary number I made up, there is no magic number which makes this approach unviable, it all depends on how the users interact with the platform/how often and where the data is inserted)
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Always said by people who haven't spent much time in the cloud. Because single hosts will always go down. Just a question of when.
    - BossingAround 2y ago
      I love k8s, but bringing back up a single app that crashed is a very different problem from "our k8s is down" - because if you think your k8s won't go down, you're in for a surprise. You can view a single k8s also as a single host, which will go down at some point (e.g. a botched upgrade, cloud network partition, or something similar). While much less frequent, also much more difficult to get out of. Of course, if you have a multi-cloud setup with automatic (and periodically tested!) app migration across clouds, well then... Perhaps that's the answer nowadays.. :)
bamboozled 2y ago
Agreed, we're a small team and we benefit greatly from managed k8s (EKS). I have to say the whole ecosystem just continues to improve as far as I can tell and the developer satisfaction is really high with it. Personally I think k8s is where it's at now. The innovation and open source contributions are immense. I'm glad we made the switch. I understand the frustrations of the past, but I think it was much harder to use 4+ years ago. Now, I don't see how anyone could mess it up so hard.
MrDarcy 2y ago
> Kubernetes isn't even that complicated I’ve been struggling to square this sentiment as well. I spend all day in AWS and k8s and k8s is at least an order of magnitude simpler than AWS. What are all the people who think operating k8s is too complicated operating on? Surely not AWS…
- tbrownaw 2y ago
  The thing you already know tends to be less complicated than the thing you don't know.
- rco8786 2y ago
  I think "k8s is complicated" and "AWS is even more complicated" can both be true. Doing anything in AWS is like pulling teeth.
- brainzap 2y ago
  The sum is complex, specially with the custom operators.
chrischen 2y ago
There are also a lot of cog-in-the-machine engineers here that totally do not get the bigger picture or the vantage point from another department.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dorianmariefr 2y ago
ruby on rails is all you need

JohnMakin 2y ago

> I think much of the hate on HN comes from the "ruby on rails is all you need" crowd. Maybe - people seem really gungho about serverless solutions here too

dexwiz 2y ago
The hype for serverless cooled after that article about Prime Video dropping lambda. No one wants a product that a company won’t dogfood. I realize Amazon probably uses lambda elsewhere, but it was still a bad look.
- LordKeren 2y ago
  I think it was much more about one specific use case of lambda that was a bad fit for the prime video team’s need and not a rejection of lambda/serverless. TBH, it kind of reflected more poorly on the team than lambda as a product
- cmckn 2y ago
  > Amazon probably uses lambda elsewhere Yes, you could say that. :)
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  not probably, their lambda service powers much of their control plane.

eutropia 2y ago

I guess the ones who quietly ship dozens of rails apps on k8s are too busy getting shit done to stop and share their boring opinions about pragmatically choosing the right tool for the job :)

BobbyJo 2y ago
"But you can run your rails app on a single host with embedded SQLite, K8s is unnecessary."
- ffsm8 2y ago
  And there is truth to that. Most deployments are at that level, and it absolutely is way more performant then the alternative. it just comes with several tradeoffs... But these tradeoffs are usually worth it for deployments with <10k concurrent users. Which Figma certainly isn't. Though you probably could still do it, but that's likely more trouble then it's worth (The 10k is just an arbitrary number I made up, there is no magic number which makes this approach unviable, it all depends on how the users interact with the platform/how often and where the data is inserted)
- threeseed 2y ago
  Always said by people who haven't spent much time in the cloud. Because single hosts will always go down. Just a question of when.
  - BossingAround 2y ago
    I love k8s, but bringing back up a single app that crashed is a very different problem from "our k8s is down" - because if you think your k8s won't go down, you're in for a surprise. You can view a single k8s also as a single host, which will go down at some point (e.g. a botched upgrade, cloud network partition, or something similar). While much less frequent, also much more difficult to get out of. Of course, if you have a multi-cloud setup with automatic (and periodically tested!) app migration across clouds, well then... Perhaps that's the answer nowadays.. :)

bamboozled 2y ago

Agreed, we're a small team and we benefit greatly from managed k8s (EKS). I have to say the whole ecosystem just continues to improve as far as I can tell and the developer satisfaction is really high with it. Personally I think k8s is where it's at now. The innovation and open source contributions are immense. I'm glad we made the switch. I understand the frustrations of the past, but I think it was much harder to use 4+ years ago. Now, I don't see how anyone could mess it up so hard.

MrDarcy 2y ago

> Kubernetes isn't even that complicated I’ve been struggling to square this sentiment as well. I spend all day in AWS and k8s and k8s is at least an order of magnitude simpler than AWS. What are all the people who think operating k8s is too complicated operating on? Surely not AWS…

tbrownaw 2y ago
The thing you already know tends to be less complicated than the thing you don't know.
rco8786 2y ago
I think "k8s is complicated" and "AWS is even more complicated" can both be true. Doing anything in AWS is like pulling teeth.
brainzap 2y ago
The sum is complex, specially with the custom operators.

chrischen 2y ago

There are also a lot of cog-in-the-machine engineers here that totally do not get the bigger picture or the vantage point from another department.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dorianmariefr 2y ago

ruby on rails is all you need