5 ms·

Those poor honey badgers. That may sound like a punch line, but it is actually a serious point: our existence has externalities that need to be taken into acco

by lisper 2y ago

Those poor honey badgers. That may sound like a punch line, but it is actually a serious point: our existence has externalities that need to be taken into account. If you're going to argue for the value of potential experiences that will never be had by old people because they die, then I think you also need to consider the value of potential experiences that will never be had by young people because they are never born since all available resources are being used in perpetuity by the lucky generation that came along just as the longevity technology matured.

ben_w 2y ago
Arguing for the potential future of young people who won't be born, is a thing that some do. Not me, I think there's a hyperbolic discount to unwritten futures¹, and that we should live in the present with a view to the foreseeable future — a future which is, IMO, currently "about 5 years"², because there's too many things changing to see further than that anyway. Perhaps one day things will calm down, and we can be confident of what our experiences will be a millennium into the future; or perhaps that future, being filled by other humans just like ourselves who are themselves all making predictions of what will come, will be inherently chaotic beyond our own ability to forecast. And a millennium is what you want for starters if you are to explore the stars, as space dust becomes dangerous well before relativity makes a huge difference. ¹ https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2020/01/08-21.46.38.html https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2020/01/08-21.46.38.html ² https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2024/03/23-17.24.34.html https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2024/03/23-17.24.34.html
- lisper 2y ago
  > I think there's a hyperbolic discount to unwritten futures. And yet you value the unwritten futures of existing people. BTW, it's not just about the actual unborn, it's all the existing people who want the experience of having and raising children who won't be able to. Personally, I am happily childless by choice, but I am given to understand that some people find it a very fulfilling experience.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > And yet you value the unwritten futures of existing people I can personally experience aging: Every change to my body after the mid 20s sucks. A life of the same length without aging is still an improvement. Unwinding the last 15 years of aging on my body would still be an improvement, even if aging continued normally and lifespan wasn't increased as a side effect.
    - lisper 2y ago
      I have no problem working towards improved quality of life, but I think we should start with the low-lying fruit of improving the quality of life of poor young people rather than old rich people. But either way that's very different from working to extend longevity.

by lisper 2y ago

ben_w 2y ago

Arguing for the potential future of young people who won't be born, is a thing that some do. Not me, I think there's a hyperbolic discount to unwritten futures¹, and that we should live in the present with a view to the foreseeable future — a future which is, IMO, currently "about 5 years"², because there's too many things changing to see further than that anyway. Perhaps one day things will calm down, and we can be confident of what our experiences will be a millennium into the future; or perhaps that future, being filled by other humans just like ourselves who are themselves all making predictions of what will come, will be inherently chaotic beyond our own ability to forecast. And a millennium is what you want for starters if you are to explore the stars, as space dust becomes dangerous well before relativity makes a huge difference. ¹ https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2020/01/08-21.46.38.html https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2020/01/08-21.46.38.html ² https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2024/03/23-17.24.34.html https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2024/03/23-17.24.34.html

lisper 2y ago
> I think there's a hyperbolic discount to unwritten futures. And yet you value the unwritten futures of existing people. BTW, it's not just about the actual unborn, it's all the existing people who want the experience of having and raising children who won't be able to. Personally, I am happily childless by choice, but I am given to understand that some people find it a very fulfilling experience.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > And yet you value the unwritten futures of existing people I can personally experience aging: Every change to my body after the mid 20s sucks. A life of the same length without aging is still an improvement. Unwinding the last 15 years of aging on my body would still be an improvement, even if aging continued normally and lifespan wasn't increased as a side effect.
  - lisper 2y ago
    I have no problem working towards improved quality of life, but I think we should start with the low-lying fruit of improving the quality of life of poor young people rather than old rich people. But either way that's very different from working to extend longevity.