5 ms·

We should just use fucking normal plastic straws. This is environmental priority number 1,000,000, it just appeals to people instead of vastly more impactful i

We should just use fucking normal plastic straws. This is environmental priority number 1,000,000, it just appeals to people instead of vastly more impactful interventions because roughly 50% of the environmental movement is looking for minor inconveniences that they can personally endure so they get a feeling of atonement.

V__ 2y ago
I think it's the other way around. Simple, cheap and visible 'solutions' make companies look green without having to actually do anything. That it inconveniences people is just a great benefit, so they can resist future change by saying: we would like to do more, but people don't want that.
- mc32 2y ago
  Why don't companies come out and tell the truth rather than pretend to be doing something though? Like, straws in some countries end up disproportionately in streams, etc., but not in country X, moreover, plastic straw alternatives are worse due to a, b and c.
  - soco 2y ago
    Because they live out of lying to their customers? Doing the barely minimum and not even that, trying to get around any regulation which may benefit the customers, welcome to today's economy. I don't want to call it capitalism or socialism or whatever - because under any name, it's just a shit status we have - and we surprisingly seem willing to put up with.
aeternum 2y ago
Yes, also no one considered the negative externalities in terms of public sentiment. Drinking through a floppy paper straw is unpleasant and it leads to snarky comments and negative sentiment about environmentalism. The effect is not measurable and it was a knee-jerk reaction to a viral video rather than data driven. It acts as evidence that environmentalism has become mostly political rather than scientific.
- qball 2y ago
  >Drinking through a floppy paper straw is unpleasant but leads to positive sentiments around environmentalism for environmentalists Which is all you really need to know about why they did it. The vast majority of people dispose of their trash correctly, and if you're worried about your own plastic waste ending up dumped into the Pacific via third-world recycling then doing it on-continent would result in cleaning up more than just straws.
  - aeternum 2y ago
    Interesting, yeah thinking more about this it probably applies to recycling also. Separating your plastics is mostly useless as they just get shipped to third world countries where they are mostly dumped or burned. But that act of sorting and shaming others for not doing it definitely makes a certain subset of people feel better about themselves.
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  Every time I end up with a soggy paper straw sticking out the top of a disposable plastic cup I contemplate the credibility of modern environmentalism politics.
ryandrake 2y ago
Or just choose not to use straws. I haven't needed to drink through a straw since I was 3 and couldn't hold a cup straight up-and-down. Who are these grown-ass adults who need to suck their drink through a straw like an uncoordinated child? I can see if you are elderly or disabled or require extra assistance, then a straw would be essential, but for 99% of able-bodied adults? Why do restaurants even bother?
- sefrost 2y ago
  You need a straw if you're wearing lipstick.
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Perhaps I need to tell my wife, she uses lipstick and no straws. What would be your source for this?
  - meowster 2y ago
    Do you mean people want a straw if they want to wear lipstick and want to not ruin its application?
    - spwa4 2y ago
      This is the third thing someone is demanding people give up just so we could have a token, ineffective, anti-straw policy. 1) lipstick (and the effort put into applying it) 2) health reasons (not trusting the cup's sanitary credentials) 3) children (no idea why, but I have kids, and let me tell you: they want straws. Plus prevents spills if you tell them to leave the glass on the table) How about we give up paper straws instead?
    - sefrost 2y ago
      Yeah that's a more accurate way of phrasing it. Sentiment's the same though imo.
    - chucksta 2y ago
      Schematics - you mean people _want_ water if they _want_ to live and _want_ to do it in a healthy manor?

V__ 2y ago

I think it's the other way around. Simple, cheap and visible 'solutions' make companies look green without having to actually do anything. That it inconveniences people is just a great benefit, so they can resist future change by saying: we would like to do more, but people don't want that.

mc32 2y ago
Why don't companies come out and tell the truth rather than pretend to be doing something though? Like, straws in some countries end up disproportionately in streams, etc., but not in country X, moreover, plastic straw alternatives are worse due to a, b and c.
- soco 2y ago
  Because they live out of lying to their customers? Doing the barely minimum and not even that, trying to get around any regulation which may benefit the customers, welcome to today's economy. I don't want to call it capitalism or socialism or whatever - because under any name, it's just a shit status we have - and we surprisingly seem willing to put up with.

aeternum 2y ago

Yes, also no one considered the negative externalities in terms of public sentiment. Drinking through a floppy paper straw is unpleasant and it leads to snarky comments and negative sentiment about environmentalism. The effect is not measurable and it was a knee-jerk reaction to a viral video rather than data driven. It acts as evidence that environmentalism has become mostly political rather than scientific.

qball 2y ago
>Drinking through a floppy paper straw is unpleasant but leads to positive sentiments around environmentalism for environmentalists Which is all you really need to know about why they did it. The vast majority of people dispose of their trash correctly, and if you're worried about your own plastic waste ending up dumped into the Pacific via third-world recycling then doing it on-continent would result in cleaning up more than just straws.
- aeternum 2y ago
  Interesting, yeah thinking more about this it probably applies to recycling also. Separating your plastics is mostly useless as they just get shipped to third world countries where they are mostly dumped or burned. But that act of sorting and shaming others for not doing it definitely makes a certain subset of people feel better about themselves.
AmericanChopper 2y ago
Every time I end up with a soggy paper straw sticking out the top of a disposable plastic cup I contemplate the credibility of modern environmentalism politics.

ryandrake 2y ago

Or just choose not to use straws. I haven't needed to drink through a straw since I was 3 and couldn't hold a cup straight up-and-down. Who are these grown-ass adults who need to suck their drink through a straw like an uncoordinated child? I can see if you are elderly or disabled or require extra assistance, then a straw would be essential, but for 99% of able-bodied adults? Why do restaurants even bother?

sefrost 2y ago
You need a straw if you're wearing lipstick.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Perhaps I need to tell my wife, she uses lipstick and no straws. What would be your source for this?
- meowster 2y ago
  Do you mean people want a straw if they want to wear lipstick and want to not ruin its application?
  - spwa4 2y ago
    This is the third thing someone is demanding people give up just so we could have a token, ineffective, anti-straw policy. 1) lipstick (and the effort put into applying it) 2) health reasons (not trusting the cup's sanitary credentials) 3) children (no idea why, but I have kids, and let me tell you: they want straws. Plus prevents spills if you tell them to leave the glass on the table) How about we give up paper straws instead?
  - sefrost 2y ago
    Yeah that's a more accurate way of phrasing it. Sentiment's the same though imo.
  - chucksta 2y ago
    Schematics - you mean people _want_ water if they _want_ to live and _want_ to do it in a healthy manor?