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Excellent. I tried to get at something similar in a comment I made earlier today but was immediately downvoted and thus had my account automatically rate limite

by kessog 2y ago

Excellent. I tried to get at something similar in a comment I made earlier today but was immediately downvoted and thus had my account automatically rate limited. It seems questioning the materialist presuppositions many hold around concepts like life and death can be a sore spot for some on HN. Am I correct in thinking you're circling Christian theology, specifically the Orthodox Christian idea of Theosis?

rowanG077 2y ago
It's because anything non-materialist is by definition non-physical and thus hogwash bullshit until you can actually prove it. By proving it you have made it physical. There is zero evidence that anything non-materialist actually exist, literally zero. But what we do have is an island of things people have claimed is non-materialist to get smaller and smaller over time. Childish arguments like "But you can't prove this rock isn't conscious" is just the standard god of the gaps argument in a purple shirt that has been done to death.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  > "But you can't prove this rock isn't conscious" My favourite one in this line is “you can’t prove there isn’t an invisible pink unicorn in the middle of your living room and we can still agree it’s very unlikely to be there”.
- kessog 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    Some mathematics is hogwash. Some isn't. The game of mathematics is to define some axioms and sees what falls out of that. If your axioms are chosen such that they match reality it's not hogwash. For example boolean algebra is made physical in, among others, digital circuits. That's why mathematics also isn't considered a physical science by most. I didn't make any claim to anything non-physical.
    - kessog 2y ago
      [flagged]
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  The plane of consciousness and imagination is non physical.
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    Prove that it isn't just signals in the brain then. Untill then the best you can say is we don't know. a few hundred years ago people might have said pain is non-physical but look how that turned out. Just because we don't know now how it works is not an argument that it is non-physical. In fact there is evidence it is physical. We have been able to decode low fidelity images of stuff people are imagining using brain imaging. That would never work if imagination is non-physical.
    - mensetmanusman 2y ago
      This confuses data with runtime.
      - rowanG077 2y ago
        This makes no sense without further clarification. What is the runtime here? What is the data?

by kessog 2y ago

rowanG077 2y ago

It's because anything non-materialist is by definition non-physical and thus hogwash bullshit until you can actually prove it. By proving it you have made it physical. There is zero evidence that anything non-materialist actually exist, literally zero. But what we do have is an island of things people have claimed is non-materialist to get smaller and smaller over time. Childish arguments like "But you can't prove this rock isn't conscious" is just the standard god of the gaps argument in a purple shirt that has been done to death.

rbanffy 2y ago
> "But you can't prove this rock isn't conscious" My favourite one in this line is “you can’t prove there isn’t an invisible pink unicorn in the middle of your living room and we can still agree it’s very unlikely to be there”.
kessog 2y ago
[flagged]
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Some mathematics is hogwash. Some isn't. The game of mathematics is to define some axioms and sees what falls out of that. If your axioms are chosen such that they match reality it's not hogwash. For example boolean algebra is made physical in, among others, digital circuits. That's why mathematics also isn't considered a physical science by most. I didn't make any claim to anything non-physical.
  - kessog 2y ago
    [flagged]
mensetmanusman 2y ago
The plane of consciousness and imagination is non physical.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Prove that it isn't just signals in the brain then. Untill then the best you can say is we don't know. a few hundred years ago people might have said pain is non-physical but look how that turned out. Just because we don't know now how it works is not an argument that it is non-physical. In fact there is evidence it is physical. We have been able to decode low fidelity images of stuff people are imagining using brain imaging. That would never work if imagination is non-physical.
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    This confuses data with runtime.
    - rowanG077 2y ago
      This makes no sense without further clarification. What is the runtime here? What is the data?