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> EU: creates regulation that makes doing that thing illegal That’s a huge fallacy. For the most part complaints about the EU regulatory fetish are about the w

> EU: creates regulation that makes doing that thing illegal That’s a huge fallacy. For the most part complaints about the EU regulatory fetish are about the way regulations don’t make it clear what is legal to do. So yeah, the EU outlaws some bad behavior, but also lots of innocuous behavior, with a “spirit of the law” enforcement regime. So nobody actually knows what’s legal. I’m surprised that’s not well understood. The complaints aren’t about regulation, they’re about intentional uncertainty that allows for selective enforcement (coincidentally always against non-EU companies) with outcomes that can’t be predicted in advance and penalties that far outweigh potential profits from a medium sized market.

piva00 2y ago
> So yeah, the EU outlaws some bad behavior, but also lots of innocuous behavior, with a “spirit of the law” enforcement regime. So nobody actually knows what’s legal. There are edge cases but the directives are quite clear most of the time. It's much better than regulations that are interpreted literally, and have huge gaping loopholes to be exploited by companies spending millions on lawyers.
- brookst 2y ago
  Ok, so would it be legal for Apple to ship Apple Intelligence in the EU, or would it be illegal unless they allowed e.g. Google to plug in and provide the same features? I've read the DMA cover to cover twice and I honestly can't tell you. There are pretty convincing arguments in either direction as far as I can tell. I don't think it would be possible for Apple (or anyone else) to know the legality before the trial.
troupo 2y ago
Laws cannot describe every single intricacy of all possible human behaviour and activities, news at 11.
talldayo 2y ago
> but also lots of innocuous behavior, with a “spirit of the law” enforcement regime. This is great, and you're only mad because it's the perfect riposte to Apple's "loophole around the spirit of the law" mentality. Cry more! We got into this mess because Apple illegally manipulated their implementation of normal software; App Stores, browsers, messaging apps, you name it. The point of this legislation is to make businesses think twice before pushing a product competitors are blocked from competing with. In that sense it is about as clear as you could ask for, unless you're an Apple sycophant demanding "clarity" in the form of clemency. I'll just be honest; people like you are the only reason I read HN anymore. I've gotten tired of the moonshot posts and the idiot investors, but corporate apologists? That one's evergreen. Ever since the DMA you people have crawled up to the surface like worms after rain to defend your almighty benefactor and the power they wield. Now I get to enjoy less-and-less coherent posts from people that don't even get paid to attack the government on behalf of big business. If any one of you had an ounce of faith in Apple, then you wouldn't feel the need to speak on their behalf. Alas.
- brookst 2y ago
  What an insulting post. Do you talk to people IRL that way?
  - talldayo 2y ago
    To people with emotional attachment to businesses? I upset them pretty often, no matter how I police my tone. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, they'll be hurt quite a bit more if you insist on excusing all of Apple's deficiencies in the same way. It's best to not make a habit out of defending companies that incessantly lie, lest you start taking the truth personally.
    - brookst 2y ago
      One of us is emotional, and it’s not me. Chill.

piva00 2y ago

> So yeah, the EU outlaws some bad behavior, but also lots of innocuous behavior, with a “spirit of the law” enforcement regime. So nobody actually knows what’s legal. There are edge cases but the directives are quite clear most of the time. It's much better than regulations that are interpreted literally, and have huge gaping loopholes to be exploited by companies spending millions on lawyers.

brookst 2y ago
Ok, so would it be legal for Apple to ship Apple Intelligence in the EU, or would it be illegal unless they allowed e.g. Google to plug in and provide the same features? I've read the DMA cover to cover twice and I honestly can't tell you. There are pretty convincing arguments in either direction as far as I can tell. I don't think it would be possible for Apple (or anyone else) to know the legality before the trial.

troupo 2y ago

Laws cannot describe every single intricacy of all possible human behaviour and activities, news at 11.

talldayo 2y ago

> but also lots of innocuous behavior, with a “spirit of the law” enforcement regime. This is great, and you're only mad because it's the perfect riposte to Apple's "loophole around the spirit of the law" mentality. Cry more! We got into this mess because Apple illegally manipulated their implementation of normal software; App Stores, browsers, messaging apps, you name it. The point of this legislation is to make businesses think twice before pushing a product competitors are blocked from competing with. In that sense it is about as clear as you could ask for, unless you're an Apple sycophant demanding "clarity" in the form of clemency. I'll just be honest; people like you are the only reason I read HN anymore. I've gotten tired of the moonshot posts and the idiot investors, but corporate apologists? That one's evergreen. Ever since the DMA you people have crawled up to the surface like worms after rain to defend your almighty benefactor and the power they wield. Now I get to enjoy less-and-less coherent posts from people that don't even get paid to attack the government on behalf of big business. If any one of you had an ounce of faith in Apple, then you wouldn't feel the need to speak on their behalf. Alas.

brookst 2y ago
What an insulting post. Do you talk to people IRL that way?
- talldayo 2y ago
  To people with emotional attachment to businesses? I upset them pretty often, no matter how I police my tone. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, they'll be hurt quite a bit more if you insist on excusing all of Apple's deficiencies in the same way. It's best to not make a habit out of defending companies that incessantly lie, lest you start taking the truth personally.
  - brookst 2y ago
    One of us is emotional, and it’s not me. Chill.