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> Another figure illustrates why the practice is necessary from a Swiss perspective: in 2023, 92.5 percent of all trains in Switzerland reached their destinatio

> Another figure illustrates why the practice is necessary from a Swiss perspective: in 2023, 92.5 percent of all trains in Switzerland reached their destination on time, compared to only 64 percent for long-distance trains in Germany. To add a bit more detail: SBB (Swiss federal railways) consider a train on time if it reaches its destination with less than three minutes’ delay [1]. DB (Deutsche Bahn) puts the threshold at 15 minutes ("Reisendenpünktlichkeit") [2]. [1] https://company.sbb.ch/en/the-company/responsibility-society-environment/customers/punctuality.html https://company.sbb.ch/en/the-company/responsibility-society... [2] https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen_fakten/puenktlichkeitswerte-6878476 https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen...

macbr 2y ago
Having read through the links you provided: You are comparing two different things. DB’s Reisendenpünktlichkeit takes in delays caused by missed connections etc. SBB’s 3 minute delay are just the individual train delays. For that DB has a similar measure which defines punctual as below 6 minutes of delay. So the difference is big (3 vs 6 minutes) but not that big (3 vs 15 minutes).
- remolueoend 2y ago
  You are of course right, "Reisendenpünktlichkeit Fernverkehr" hasn't even been published by DB before January 2024 - my bad.
lqet 2y ago
To put this a bit into perspective: long-distance trains in Germany typically travel for at least half a day. "Long-distance" trains in Switzerland can be compared to regional lines in Germany (the country simply isn't that large, and the majority of rail travel in Switzerland happens between Zurich/Olten/Berne/Basel, which are all within 100 km of each other). The likelihood of anything going wrong during a 1:30h train journey from Zurich to Basel is simply much lower than during a 10 hour train journey from Kiel to Freiburg. 3 minutes delay on a 1:30h train journey is a delay of 3.3%, 15 mins delay on a 10 hour train journey is a delay of 2.5%. The reason regional trains are also delayed is that regional lines, local lines, long distance lines and freight trains are typically using the same tracks in Germany, and delayed long distance trains always get higher priority. A typical situation is that your regional train is perfectly on time, but suddenly stops, and waits for 5-10 minutes for a delayed long-distance train to overtake it. Switzerland has a similar mixed system, but as noted above, does not really have long-distance rail lines, apart from the trains that enter from Italy, Austria, France and Germany, which is the main reason why these trains are not allowed to enter if delayed. This is in contrast to the system in France, where TGV lines typically have dedicated high-speed tracks, where all trains on it travel more or less at the same speed. Shouldn't you then add redundancy to the system by having time buffers at large stops every 2-3 hours? Or even let replacement trains start at intermediate stops as soon as the delay of the regular train is greater than X to avoid propagation of the delay into to rest of the network? Absolutely, but most stations and rail lines in Germany are either at their operational limit, or above. Having a train wait for 15 minutes in a large station just in case it is delayed would block that track for 15 minutes in the majority of cases, when the train is punctual. Also, DB simply has not enough rolling material to start replacement trains, and the rail infrastructure to even park such trains has largely been dismantled in the years after the privatization (they are doing it sometimes, but not very often).
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  DB is in major crisis with the workforce with tens of thousands of boomers retiring soon. They don’t have enough people for any redundancy.
  - user90131313 2y ago
    is this specific to DB only? I feel like Germany needs a lot of workforce at German quality but no way they can fill that with any type of foreign immigration. They lowered a lot of immigration requirements to entry because of this. But still it will be not enough. It's a cultural thing and low wages in Germany can't fix it.
    - Gare 2y ago
      And now because of German needs eastern and south-easthern EU countries are in even worse position because Germany has hoovered up a decent chunk of skilled younger workforce. We have started to import unskilled/low skilled laborers from SE Asia en masse to keep the country barely running. But the quality is going downhill yet prices of goods and real estate are soaring.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >and south-easthern EU countries are in even worse position The economy of Easter Europe has been growing steadily in the last years and skilled immigration tom Germany ahs slowed since the salary/CoL ratio has reduced lately.
    - trueismywork 2y ago
      The language is a big problem. They can get quality immigrants, but convincing those quality immigrants to learn German is a big task. A lot of people would rather go to US with all it's uncertainty than stay in Germany due to these issues.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
zelphirkalt 2y ago
15 min already? Damn, I remember, when the threshold was at 5m59s and that was already kind of outrageous.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Isn't moving the goalposts convenient?
  - piva00 2y ago
    Not really moved the goalposts according to a comment posted 20+ minutes before yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41190333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41190333
fmobus 2y ago
And its doubtful any statistics from the German side can be trusted. In more than one occasion, I've personally experienced delayed and cancelled trains that were shown as running on time in every information system. DB either doesn't know where their trains are, or is continuously fudging the numbers.
- maweki 2y ago
  I don't really understand the downvote, as cancelled trains do indeed not count towards the delay. So often trains are cut short and do not reach their final destination, which is arguably even more inconvenient for the customers.
- trueismywork 2y ago
  They are intentionally preventing transparency. The operational side of DB knows where the trains are, and the infrastructure to communicate it transparently to consumer side is intentionally hampered. And so information I'd either delayed or not available.

macbr 2y ago

Having read through the links you provided: You are comparing two different things. DB’s Reisendenpünktlichkeit takes in delays caused by missed connections etc. SBB’s 3 minute delay are just the individual train delays. For that DB has a similar measure which defines punctual as below 6 minutes of delay. So the difference is big (3 vs 6 minutes) but not that big (3 vs 15 minutes).

remolueoend 2y ago
You are of course right, "Reisendenpünktlichkeit Fernverkehr" hasn't even been published by DB before January 2024 - my bad.

lqet 2y ago

To put this a bit into perspective: long-distance trains in Germany typically travel for at least half a day. "Long-distance" trains in Switzerland can be compared to regional lines in Germany (the country simply isn't that large, and the majority of rail travel in Switzerland happens between Zurich/Olten/Berne/Basel, which are all within 100 km of each other). The likelihood of anything going wrong during a 1:30h train journey from Zurich to Basel is simply much lower than during a 10 hour train journey from Kiel to Freiburg. 3 minutes delay on a 1:30h train journey is a delay of 3.3%, 15 mins delay on a 10 hour train journey is a delay of 2.5%. The reason regional trains are also delayed is that regional lines, local lines, long distance lines and freight trains are typically using the same tracks in Germany, and delayed long distance trains always get higher priority. A typical situation is that your regional train is perfectly on time, but suddenly stops, and waits for 5-10 minutes for a delayed long-distance train to overtake it. Switzerland has a similar mixed system, but as noted above, does not really have long-distance rail lines, apart from the trains that enter from Italy, Austria, France and Germany, which is the main reason why these trains are not allowed to enter if delayed. This is in contrast to the system in France, where TGV lines typically have dedicated high-speed tracks, where all trains on it travel more or less at the same speed. Shouldn't you then add redundancy to the system by having time buffers at large stops every 2-3 hours? Or even let replacement trains start at intermediate stops as soon as the delay of the regular train is greater than X to avoid propagation of the delay into to rest of the network? Absolutely, but most stations and rail lines in Germany are either at their operational limit, or above. Having a train wait for 15 minutes in a large station just in case it is delayed would block that track for 15 minutes in the majority of cases, when the train is punctual. Also, DB simply has not enough rolling material to start replacement trains, and the rail infrastructure to even park such trains has largely been dismantled in the years after the privatization (they are doing it sometimes, but not very often).

ivan_gammel 2y ago
DB is in major crisis with the workforce with tens of thousands of boomers retiring soon. They don’t have enough people for any redundancy.
- user90131313 2y ago
  is this specific to DB only? I feel like Germany needs a lot of workforce at German quality but no way they can fill that with any type of foreign immigration. They lowered a lot of immigration requirements to entry because of this. But still it will be not enough. It's a cultural thing and low wages in Germany can't fix it.
  - Gare 2y ago
    And now because of German needs eastern and south-easthern EU countries are in even worse position because Germany has hoovered up a decent chunk of skilled younger workforce. We have started to import unskilled/low skilled laborers from SE Asia en masse to keep the country barely running. But the quality is going downhill yet prices of goods and real estate are soaring.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >and south-easthern EU countries are in even worse position The economy of Easter Europe has been growing steadily in the last years and skilled immigration tom Germany ahs slowed since the salary/CoL ratio has reduced lately.
  - trueismywork 2y ago
    The language is a big problem. They can get quality immigrants, but convincing those quality immigrants to learn German is a big task. A lot of people would rather go to US with all it's uncertainty than stay in Germany due to these issues.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago

zelphirkalt 2y ago

15 min already? Damn, I remember, when the threshold was at 5m59s and that was already kind of outrageous.

Rinzler89 2y ago
Isn't moving the goalposts convenient?
- piva00 2y ago
  Not really moved the goalposts according to a comment posted 20+ minutes before yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41190333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41190333

fmobus 2y ago

And its doubtful any statistics from the German side can be trusted. In more than one occasion, I've personally experienced delayed and cancelled trains that were shown as running on time in every information system. DB either doesn't know where their trains are, or is continuously fudging the numbers.

maweki 2y ago
I don't really understand the downvote, as cancelled trains do indeed not count towards the delay. So often trains are cut short and do not reach their final destination, which is arguably even more inconvenient for the customers.
trueismywork 2y ago
They are intentionally preventing transparency. The operational side of DB knows where the trains are, and the infrastructure to communicate it transparently to consumer side is intentionally hampered. And so information I'd either delayed or not available.