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TW: Sexual abuse For anyone on the outside, this appears to be an intensely rash decision. I can rest assured that Tim Peters found trauma in the experience of

TW: Sexual abuse For anyone on the outside, this appears to be an intensely rash decision. I can rest assured that Tim Peters found trauma in the experience of being suspended as the level of appropriate communication is never met, neither in this announcement, nor in Lukaz Langa's persistent references [1] [2] to rapists when discussing conduct on an internet forum. I'm sure there are reasons to become a python core developer, but open hostility and defaulting to homogeneity have rarely been experienced as acceptance by me; they simply scale in ways easily implemented across a wide audience. De-escalation and finding middle ground without validating harmful behavior do not scale well but then again, there has never been a capitalist movement behind finding a solution which works 1: https://discuss.python.org/t/how-can-we-better-support-neurodivergent-newcomers-to-the-community/58724/5 https://discuss.python.org/t/how-can-we-better-support-neuro... 2: https://discuss.python.org/t/discussion-about-recent-coc-events/5778/35 https://discuss.python.org/t/discussion-about-recent-coc-eve...

a-french-anon 2y ago
Sorry in advance if this is "a bit" flamebait-y, but the irony is too strong for me to not point out: Working around another person’s problematic behavior and having to teach newcomers to the group to do the same is a known psychological antipattern. When talking about "neurodivergent" people having communication issues, but the now enshrined "use my pronouns or else" thing is conveniently forgotten.
- hungie 2y ago
  There's a huge gap between someone being an odious asshole whom everyone just accepts, and, "this is how I'd prefer to be addressed". Like, if a "Robert" says "I prefer Bob" and you still call them Robert, you're choosing to make them unhappy. If someone says, "I prefer they/them" and you use her, you are choosing to make them unhappy. If someone says "I will be an asshole in public and won't accept critique on that" and everyone is like "this guy's an ass but deal with it" that's a problem with the community that should be addressed.
  - a-french-anon 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - csirac2 2y ago
      Can I just say what a genuinely fascinating perspective you have there That pronouns are somehow an exercise of power that must be submitted to, and not just a common courtesy because we're not all sensitive snowflakes And that this is in any way remotely comparable to being tortured and killed for religious beliefs I wonder how you feel about the nearly 1.7% of people born intersex that you meet and definitely work with, that have been newborns treated by your own GP... occupying possibly the "wrong" pronoun according to whatever this week's definition of Definitely Binary means I'm sure people getting tortured and killed for religious beliefs will definitely relate to this discussion
      - a-french-anon 2y ago
        > not just a common courtesy because we're not all sensitive snowflakes It's not courtesy if it's non consensual, same way that wealth redistribution isn't charity. Statistically and rhetorically speaking, the pronouns enforcers' beneficiaries are the sensitive snowflakes who can't do with a few people not indulging in their delusions. You completely misunderstand the point. The vastly different level of threat itself is of no importance to the comparison, since the goal isn't to enact said threat, it's to force people to publicly betray their convictions, to mentally castrate them. It's nothing more than Orwell's "2 + 2 = 5", if you prefer this analogy. Maybe it's a special snowflake thing to want to live with your head held high, standing for what you think is true, what do I know... > I wonder how you feel about the nearly 1.7% of people born intersex that you meet and definitely work with There's nothing to feel, these people are neither male or female and would indeed deserve a specific pronoun, but pragmatism would make it as logical as making all cars fit for one-armed people. Also, your 1.7% is a bit biased, reading its source from Wikipedia's article.
        csirac2 2y ago

a-french-anon 2y ago

Sorry in advance if this is "a bit" flamebait-y, but the irony is too strong for me to not point out: Working around another person’s problematic behavior and having to teach newcomers to the group to do the same is a known psychological antipattern. When talking about "neurodivergent" people having communication issues, but the now enshrined "use my pronouns or else" thing is conveniently forgotten.

hungie 2y ago
There's a huge gap between someone being an odious asshole whom everyone just accepts, and, "this is how I'd prefer to be addressed". Like, if a "Robert" says "I prefer Bob" and you still call them Robert, you're choosing to make them unhappy. If someone says, "I prefer they/them" and you use her, you are choosing to make them unhappy. If someone says "I will be an asshole in public and won't accept critique on that" and everyone is like "this guy's an ass but deal with it" that's a problem with the community that should be addressed.
- a-french-anon 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - csirac2 2y ago
    Can I just say what a genuinely fascinating perspective you have there That pronouns are somehow an exercise of power that must be submitted to, and not just a common courtesy because we're not all sensitive snowflakes And that this is in any way remotely comparable to being tortured and killed for religious beliefs I wonder how you feel about the nearly 1.7% of people born intersex that you meet and definitely work with, that have been newborns treated by your own GP... occupying possibly the "wrong" pronoun according to whatever this week's definition of Definitely Binary means I'm sure people getting tortured and killed for religious beliefs will definitely relate to this discussion
    - a-french-anon 2y ago
      > not just a common courtesy because we're not all sensitive snowflakes It's not courtesy if it's non consensual, same way that wealth redistribution isn't charity. Statistically and rhetorically speaking, the pronouns enforcers' beneficiaries are the sensitive snowflakes who can't do with a few people not indulging in their delusions. You completely misunderstand the point. The vastly different level of threat itself is of no importance to the comparison, since the goal isn't to enact said threat, it's to force people to publicly betray their convictions, to mentally castrate them. It's nothing more than Orwell's "2 + 2 = 5", if you prefer this analogy. Maybe it's a special snowflake thing to want to live with your head held high, standing for what you think is true, what do I know... > I wonder how you feel about the nearly 1.7% of people born intersex that you meet and definitely work with There's nothing to feel, these people are neither male or female and would indeed deserve a specific pronoun, but pragmatism would make it as logical as making all cars fit for one-armed people. Also, your 1.7% is a bit biased, reading its source from Wikipedia's article.
      - csirac2 2y ago