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> the remaining ungrouped users, by process of elimination..." This being hacker news, I can't help but appreciate the pure evil genius of this. It reminds me

> the remaining ungrouped users, by process of elimination..." This being hacker news, I can't help but appreciate the pure evil genius of this. It reminds me of some other cases cunning corporate ingenuity: - Monsanto and their "terminator" seeds that prevents farmers from planting seeds they harvest, requiring them to purchase new seeds for every planting.[1] - Volkswagen and how they programmed diesel engines to activate emissions controls only during laboratory emissions testing.[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#%22Terminator%22_seeds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#%22Terminator%22_seed... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

echoangle 2y ago
> Monsanto and their "terminator" seeds that prevents farmers from planting seeds they harvest, requiring them to purchase new seeds for every planting. Kind of misleading to just state it like this if your source points out that Monsanto never sold this, pledged 25 years ago they won’t do this, and according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_tech... , they also didn’t invent it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
HDThoreaun 2y ago
Monsanto isn’t forcing anyone to buy their product. Farmers use it because they’re better than uncopyeighted seeds.
- harimau777 2y ago
  They are forced in the sense that it's a prisoner's dilemma type of thing: Farmers would be better off if none of them used exploitative seeds. However since they are competing with farmers who are using those seeds then have to do so as well in order to stay competitive.
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    I dont see how that is the case. How does one farmer using monsanto seeds mean another needs to as well? Each farmers seed choice has no effect on others choices. If the monsanto seeds cost more than they were worth farmers wouldnt use them. In fact saying that you need to use their seeds to be competitive makes it clear that you understand that the seeds are worth it, you just wish they were free or cheaper. But in order to create these seeds monsanto needs to be paid.
    - Gunax 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - kelnos 2y ago
      My guess would be it's about pricing. Let's imagine a world where there are only two farms, mine and my neighbor's. We're both using regular seeds, and we do a decent job, but it's not wonderful, and some years our yield isn't so great. Then Monsanto comes along and wants to sell us a product that gives us better, more consistent yields, even better than our best harvests with the regular seeds. The catch, of course, is that we have to buy new seed from them every year, and can't propagate seed from the prior year's crop. So my neighbor decides to start buying Monsanto's seeds, but I don't like the terms of the deal, so I don't. My neighbor sees amazing yields, even to the point of surplus. He decides to undercut me by lowering his prices because he has so much to sell, and can still make out better than before, with those lower prices. Nothing's changed for me, so I can't lower my prices. My neighbor's entire inventory sells out, but because of his surplus, only half of my yield gets sold. Fortunately I have some savings to fall back on, so I burn my entire savings feeding my family for the rest of the year, and then grudgingly buy Monsanto seeds for next year. I'm sure this exact scenario doesn't scale up to the global agricultural system, but I think it's more likely than your naive "no one forces anyone to buy anything; if they buy it, it's because it's worth it" view of economics... things are rarely that simple.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- chrz 2y ago
  They were buying farms out and suing neighbour farmers for using monsato seeds blown by wind from their farms. Theyre pure evil. They have a deal with Bayer
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    There are zero cases of monsanto suing farmers for seeds blown by the wind.
    - chrz 2y ago
      Hmm true, I was lied by internet it seems. But https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/12/monsanto-sues-farmers-seed-patents https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/12/monsanto...

echoangle 2y ago

> Monsanto and their "terminator" seeds that prevents farmers from planting seeds they harvest, requiring them to purchase new seeds for every planting. Kind of misleading to just state it like this if your source points out that Monsanto never sold this, pledged 25 years ago they won’t do this, and according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_tech... , they also didn’t invent it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

HDThoreaun 2y ago

Monsanto isn’t forcing anyone to buy their product. Farmers use it because they’re better than uncopyeighted seeds.

harimau777 2y ago
They are forced in the sense that it's a prisoner's dilemma type of thing: Farmers would be better off if none of them used exploitative seeds. However since they are competing with farmers who are using those seeds then have to do so as well in order to stay competitive.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  I dont see how that is the case. How does one farmer using monsanto seeds mean another needs to as well? Each farmers seed choice has no effect on others choices. If the monsanto seeds cost more than they were worth farmers wouldnt use them. In fact saying that you need to use their seeds to be competitive makes it clear that you understand that the seeds are worth it, you just wish they were free or cheaper. But in order to create these seeds monsanto needs to be paid.
  - Gunax 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - kelnos 2y ago
    My guess would be it's about pricing. Let's imagine a world where there are only two farms, mine and my neighbor's. We're both using regular seeds, and we do a decent job, but it's not wonderful, and some years our yield isn't so great. Then Monsanto comes along and wants to sell us a product that gives us better, more consistent yields, even better than our best harvests with the regular seeds. The catch, of course, is that we have to buy new seed from them every year, and can't propagate seed from the prior year's crop. So my neighbor decides to start buying Monsanto's seeds, but I don't like the terms of the deal, so I don't. My neighbor sees amazing yields, even to the point of surplus. He decides to undercut me by lowering his prices because he has so much to sell, and can still make out better than before, with those lower prices. Nothing's changed for me, so I can't lower my prices. My neighbor's entire inventory sells out, but because of his surplus, only half of my yield gets sold. Fortunately I have some savings to fall back on, so I burn my entire savings feeding my family for the rest of the year, and then grudgingly buy Monsanto seeds for next year. I'm sure this exact scenario doesn't scale up to the global agricultural system, but I think it's more likely than your naive "no one forces anyone to buy anything; if they buy it, it's because it's worth it" view of economics... things are rarely that simple.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
chrz 2y ago
They were buying farms out and suing neighbour farmers for using monsato seeds blown by wind from their farms. Theyre pure evil. They have a deal with Bayer
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  There are zero cases of monsanto suing farmers for seeds blown by the wind.
  - chrz 2y ago
    Hmm true, I was lied by internet it seems. But https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/12/monsanto-sues-farmers-seed-patents https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/12/monsanto...