5 ms·

Ever since I read book about Scaling by Geoffrey West where human's average age is about 40 years I feel tons of problems of modern society are due to stretchin

by geodel 2y ago

Ever since I read book about Scaling by Geoffrey West where human's average age is about 40 years I feel tons of problems of modern society are due to stretching human life far beyond 40. From population rising, declining, pension gap, bankrupting social security, care for old people, loneliness, old age diseases and so on and on. Before life was nasty, brutish and short and now for large population on earth it is still nasty, brutish but long. And I am just not fan of long.

Nursie 2y ago
How old are you now, out of interest?
- wiether 2y ago
  If they are <35, they are too young to realize how fast goes by; and if they are >40, they are selfish to still be alive while preaching for a shorter lifespan for others?
  - Nursie 2y ago
    It's more that I can't see a philosophy in which people should die at around 40 surviving in a person that nears that age, because it's tantamount at that point to saying "My life isn't worth living, it provides neither myself nor society any value". This is not something most people think of their own lives, and as a result would be more interesting than someone saying (in effect) "I think it would be better if other people died off".
- marcheradiuju 2y ago
  In some forums, "post body" is used to rebuff arguments. The implication is that, when the user posts their physique, it will be lesser than your own, and your subsequent takedown of their ideas will include a photo of your own larger physique to reinforce the superiority of the responder. In your question, there's even less of a fair shake: your own age has no part in it and the GP would simply look a fool for any answer under 40, due to the context. What's sad is that you think that appearance would be anything but an underhanded jab on your part, the immortality-conversation equivalent of "and yet you live in a society, hmm!" Say GP was 20. So what? Have you dismantled any of their points about the inherent non-fit between the natural engineering of the human body and a society dominated by adults 40+? The GP at least brought one new idea to the thread, and it's rude of you to try to shuffle them off for immaturity. Maybe you're the type to say "it was just a question!", but its obvious to anyone who would read here that you were trying to subvert actual argumentation with a character attack.
  - Nursie 2y ago
    I believe this comment violates HN's rules to assume the best intent on interlocutors. > Say GP was 20. So what? If the GP is 20 then their personal philosophy that humans should die around 40 may be informed by their feelings that 40 is a long way off and that people around 40 years old are 'other' to themselves and their peer group. Further, their philosophy has not at that point been tested while staring down the barrel, and has the luxury of being somewhat abstract. And if it has been tested by staring down the barrel, then it becomes more interesting, and we may explore why they feel they don't have anything further to contribute to human society. I'm not pre-judging, I'm seeking to understand. Maybe this person would go willingly to carousel, but as that is entirely alien to me, I wanted to establish if that was the case. And if so I want to know more about it. So regardless of your own extremely rude response, it is pertinent information required to understand the context of the original post and the thinking behind it.
    - marcheradiuju 2y ago
      Your expanded reply is a lot more generous than the single-line reply you gave, which I pattern-matched to countless prior discussions about age where the exact same verbiage was used to undercut youth. Hopefully you can forgive seeing my past experiences in a matching circumstance. I still think that you do a disservice to the argument with the way you frame it. Not having stared down the barrel is a euphemism gesturing at naivety, when you could more kindly say that few people past the cutoff that GP gave would agree, and expand on that instead. I appreciate that you appear to mean this rebuttal in good faith, and I apologize for my own retort. If I were to disagree with one element of the counterargument you gave, it's that people of a certain age cannot 'contribute to society'. We can see that people of almost all ages can contribute to society - least of all by political means, e.g. Thunberg, Biden. But the thrust of GP seems to me more that the original engineering of a human involves balancing shared resources directly and indirectly in different ways across lifespans, and as we stretch that long tail further out, it calls on more and different resources than the initial structures of socioculture were designed for. This isn't just about brain fog or palliative care costs, but also about how younger cohorts cope with the world around them. Today, teenagers are told that their career peak will be in their 50s - the common response is, why work hard today when so much social momentum intends to hold you back? If our best and brightest live to 300, what will keep disenfranchised youth from decades of despair, given the economic revolutions (in the most fortunate outcome, rather than crises) these radical changes would entail? These are the questions I saw gestured at by the GP argument.
qsdf38100 2y ago
Do you really mean average age or do you mean life expectancy?

by geodel 2y ago

Nursie 2y ago

How old are you now, out of interest?

wiether 2y ago
If they are <35, they are too young to realize how fast goes by; and if they are >40, they are selfish to still be alive while preaching for a shorter lifespan for others?
- Nursie 2y ago
  It's more that I can't see a philosophy in which people should die at around 40 surviving in a person that nears that age, because it's tantamount at that point to saying "My life isn't worth living, it provides neither myself nor society any value". This is not something most people think of their own lives, and as a result would be more interesting than someone saying (in effect) "I think it would be better if other people died off".
marcheradiuju 2y ago
In some forums, "post body" is used to rebuff arguments. The implication is that, when the user posts their physique, it will be lesser than your own, and your subsequent takedown of their ideas will include a photo of your own larger physique to reinforce the superiority of the responder. In your question, there's even less of a fair shake: your own age has no part in it and the GP would simply look a fool for any answer under 40, due to the context. What's sad is that you think that appearance would be anything but an underhanded jab on your part, the immortality-conversation equivalent of "and yet you live in a society, hmm!" Say GP was 20. So what? Have you dismantled any of their points about the inherent non-fit between the natural engineering of the human body and a society dominated by adults 40+? The GP at least brought one new idea to the thread, and it's rude of you to try to shuffle them off for immaturity. Maybe you're the type to say "it was just a question!", but its obvious to anyone who would read here that you were trying to subvert actual argumentation with a character attack.
- Nursie 2y ago
  I believe this comment violates HN's rules to assume the best intent on interlocutors. > Say GP was 20. So what? If the GP is 20 then their personal philosophy that humans should die around 40 may be informed by their feelings that 40 is a long way off and that people around 40 years old are 'other' to themselves and their peer group. Further, their philosophy has not at that point been tested while staring down the barrel, and has the luxury of being somewhat abstract. And if it has been tested by staring down the barrel, then it becomes more interesting, and we may explore why they feel they don't have anything further to contribute to human society. I'm not pre-judging, I'm seeking to understand. Maybe this person would go willingly to carousel, but as that is entirely alien to me, I wanted to establish if that was the case. And if so I want to know more about it. So regardless of your own extremely rude response, it is pertinent information required to understand the context of the original post and the thinking behind it.
  - marcheradiuju 2y ago
    Your expanded reply is a lot more generous than the single-line reply you gave, which I pattern-matched to countless prior discussions about age where the exact same verbiage was used to undercut youth. Hopefully you can forgive seeing my past experiences in a matching circumstance. I still think that you do a disservice to the argument with the way you frame it. Not having stared down the barrel is a euphemism gesturing at naivety, when you could more kindly say that few people past the cutoff that GP gave would agree, and expand on that instead. I appreciate that you appear to mean this rebuttal in good faith, and I apologize for my own retort. If I were to disagree with one element of the counterargument you gave, it's that people of a certain age cannot 'contribute to society'. We can see that people of almost all ages can contribute to society - least of all by political means, e.g. Thunberg, Biden. But the thrust of GP seems to me more that the original engineering of a human involves balancing shared resources directly and indirectly in different ways across lifespans, and as we stretch that long tail further out, it calls on more and different resources than the initial structures of socioculture were designed for. This isn't just about brain fog or palliative care costs, but also about how younger cohorts cope with the world around them. Today, teenagers are told that their career peak will be in their 50s - the common response is, why work hard today when so much social momentum intends to hold you back? If our best and brightest live to 300, what will keep disenfranchised youth from decades of despair, given the economic revolutions (in the most fortunate outcome, rather than crises) these radical changes would entail? These are the questions I saw gestured at by the GP argument.

qsdf38100 2y ago

Do you really mean average age or do you mean life expectancy?