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Maybe because they are less obviously bad but they were nonetheless the biggest issues. I've found this before with problematic individuals on forums. They rar

Maybe because they are less obviously bad but they were nonetheless the biggest issues. I've found this before with problematic individuals on forums. They rarely break "obviously bad" rules because they know they'll get the ban hammer and everyone will agree they they deserved it. Instead they cause just as much havoc and disruption by doing things that don't seem that bad when they are accused of them. Eventually they cross the line and get banned anyway, but the moderators have to struggle to explain why and if it leaks into another forum you'll get a ton of people defending the problematic person and saying the mods overreacted. When in reality everyone's probably been struggling to deal with this person's disruptions for months or even years.

huhkerrf 2y ago
That's fair, but those two things shouldn't come into play at all. Just leave them out. Is this group saying that if you disagree with the idea that only white people can be racist that you can't be a contributor? I'm honestly trying to find a good faith explanation that's better than that.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - huhkerrf 2y ago
    You say "OF COURSE" but it doesn't take long to encounter the argument that racism is "prejudice plus power." It's a classic motte and bailey. I know what you're trying to imply with your comment, but again, you can't have it both ways.
    - rowanG077 2y ago
      So only white people have power? I doubt that's true for most countries in the world. Hell the president of the United States was black not that long ago.
    - bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
      > the argument that racism is "prejudice plus power. Is it difficult for you to understand that two people might mean different things by the same word? One might say "racism is discrimination based on race", and the other might say ".... But it's only relevant coming from those with actual power". The concept for two people talking past each other should be pretty intuitive to any adult, but when it comes to this specific topic it's like people dont understand it (or pretend not to)
      - huhkerrf 2y ago
        That's the whole point. You can't say "OF COURSE" it means X, and then say, well, no, obviously it means different things to different people. The point here is that, it seems as if this group is only allowing a specific view of what this concept means that is wholly unnecessary. And this is the second time that you have implied that I'm either being racist or commenting in bad faith. It's not appreciated.
- esperent 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - incrudible 2y ago
    Affirmative action is taken when the outcome does not match the expected value assuming all contenders were equal and the mismatch is explained by racism. This assumption however falls apart considering that Asians do face racism and yet their outcomes are better than expected. Affirmative action does play a role in them being effectively disadvantaged even over whites, e.g. for college admissions. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014292122000290 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001429212...
    - leereeves 2y ago
      Affirmative action was voted down even in California. If it's not acceptable in California, those who still support it must be pretty far left.
a-french-anon 2y ago
So, people manage to express dissent while following all the rules and this is somehow a bad thing? You can't just handwave people away by pretending to be a mind reader and proclaiming firm opposition is "obviously" trolling or arguing in bad faith.

huhkerrf 2y ago

That's fair, but those two things shouldn't come into play at all. Just leave them out. Is this group saying that if you disagree with the idea that only white people can be racist that you can't be a contributor? I'm honestly trying to find a good faith explanation that's better than that.

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
[flagged]
- huhkerrf 2y ago
  You say "OF COURSE" but it doesn't take long to encounter the argument that racism is "prejudice plus power." It's a classic motte and bailey. I know what you're trying to imply with your comment, but again, you can't have it both ways.
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    So only white people have power? I doubt that's true for most countries in the world. Hell the president of the United States was black not that long ago.
  - bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
    > the argument that racism is "prejudice plus power. Is it difficult for you to understand that two people might mean different things by the same word? One might say "racism is discrimination based on race", and the other might say ".... But it's only relevant coming from those with actual power". The concept for two people talking past each other should be pretty intuitive to any adult, but when it comes to this specific topic it's like people dont understand it (or pretend not to)
    - huhkerrf 2y ago
      That's the whole point. You can't say "OF COURSE" it means X, and then say, well, no, obviously it means different things to different people. The point here is that, it seems as if this group is only allowing a specific view of what this concept means that is wholly unnecessary. And this is the second time that you have implied that I'm either being racist or commenting in bad faith. It's not appreciated.
esperent 2y ago
[flagged]
- incrudible 2y ago
  Affirmative action is taken when the outcome does not match the expected value assuming all contenders were equal and the mismatch is explained by racism. This assumption however falls apart considering that Asians do face racism and yet their outcomes are better than expected. Affirmative action does play a role in them being effectively disadvantaged even over whites, e.g. for college admissions. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014292122000290 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001429212...
  - leereeves 2y ago
    Affirmative action was voted down even in California. If it's not acceptable in California, those who still support it must be pretty far left.

a-french-anon 2y ago

So, people manage to express dissent while following all the rules and this is somehow a bad thing? You can't just handwave people away by pretending to be a mind reader and proclaiming firm opposition is "obviously" trolling or arguing in bad faith.