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> Is it just me, or should we be way more horrified by the fact that the US dropped atomic bombs on civilians? First Japan was allied with nazi Germany. And na

> Is it just me, or should we be way more horrified by the fact that the US dropped atomic bombs on civilians? First Japan was allied with nazi Germany. And nazi Germany was putting jews, handicapped people, romanians, gays, etc. into crematoriums, alive. These weren't soldiers either. Second Japan did the Pearl Harbor attack: up until then the US was still a neutral country in WWII. There were many ways to not get at war in the US. Those two weren't among them. What was the US supposed to do? Not drop the bomb and let Russia annihilate and conquer Japan? These two atomic bombs were horrible but during WWII the US pretty much single handedly saved (most of) the world from both nazism and stalinism. I'm not saying the US have always been acting in good faith lately but during WWII I'm not sure the US can be faulted much. Put it another way: a world war vs fucking evil incarnate is messy.

JKCalhoun 2y ago
Not a lot of nuance in your view of the U.S. role in WWII. For example, your point: > Japan did the Pearl Harbor attack: up until then the US was still a neutral country in WWII. The U.S. Export Control Act (July 1940), freezing of Japanese assets (July 1941) and then the oil embargo (August 1941) are examples of some of the nuance I see.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  The US did those things in response to Imperial Japan's invasion, occupation, and looting of other Asian nations. No nuance is needed; Japan was the aggressor pure and simple. Nobody would ever defend the Nazis as victims yet people come out of the woodwork to defend Imperial Japan, their brutal attempt at colonialism, and the equivalent holocaust they committed. As I've said before, the Japanese sure got good marketing after the war.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    Who's defending Imperial Japan? Nuance just means recognizing that actors on both sides were participants in the build up. I dislike the wholesale excusing of one sides actions because the other side was worse. Given that Imperial Japan was so awful I'm wondering how far you would allow the U.S. to go? How about if the U.S. rounded up all Japanese Americans and put them in camps? Also completely okay, I guess, because Imperial Japan.
    - camjohnson26 2y ago
      No country is blameless in war and the United States is no exception, but there is no reasonable comparison between the evil Japan committed in Asia and what the United States did to Japanese Americans.
      - oneshtein 2y ago
        When enemy attacks our civilians — it's a war crime. When enemy civilians die because of our attack — it's just consequence of their foolish resistance. So, enemy commits war crime, while we are not!
    - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
      > "Who's defending Imperial Japan?" When you repeat the justification that the Japanese government used for going to war with the US more or less verbatim without explaining the background, well, that would be you, sir. > "I dislike the wholesale excusing of one sides actions because the other side was worse." That's not a moral or principled stance. That's just whataboutism. > "Given that Imperial Japan was so awful I'm wondering how far you would allow the U.S. to go?" You seem to be looking for an answer to paint me in a bad light and I'm feeling magnanimous today so I'll oblige you: like most Asians other than the Japanese, I see no moral problem with either the atomic bombings or the firebombings of Japanese cities in WW2.
      - JKCalhoun 2y ago
        I am white but I have been told by my (Taiwanese) manager that, "All Asian's hate the Japanese." I know only a little of the history of Japan and its neighbors but he assured me there is a long history of Japan being the aggressor behind this sentiment. I don't feel like I'm trying to paint you in a bad light, rather hoping you'll concede that one side doesn't get a free pass if the other does something atrocious. Perhaps it was my having been raised a Quaker during a formative period of my life, but an eye for an eye is quite the opposite of my philosophy.
usefulcat 2y ago
> First Japan was allied with nazi Germany That's an odd way to critique Imperial Japan, given that the US was allied with the Soviets, under Stalin no less..

JKCalhoun 2y ago

Not a lot of nuance in your view of the U.S. role in WWII. For example, your point: > Japan did the Pearl Harbor attack: up until then the US was still a neutral country in WWII. The U.S. Export Control Act (July 1940), freezing of Japanese assets (July 1941) and then the oil embargo (August 1941) are examples of some of the nuance I see.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago
The US did those things in response to Imperial Japan's invasion, occupation, and looting of other Asian nations. No nuance is needed; Japan was the aggressor pure and simple. Nobody would ever defend the Nazis as victims yet people come out of the woodwork to defend Imperial Japan, their brutal attempt at colonialism, and the equivalent holocaust they committed. As I've said before, the Japanese sure got good marketing after the war.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Who's defending Imperial Japan? Nuance just means recognizing that actors on both sides were participants in the build up. I dislike the wholesale excusing of one sides actions because the other side was worse. Given that Imperial Japan was so awful I'm wondering how far you would allow the U.S. to go? How about if the U.S. rounded up all Japanese Americans and put them in camps? Also completely okay, I guess, because Imperial Japan.
  - camjohnson26 2y ago
    No country is blameless in war and the United States is no exception, but there is no reasonable comparison between the evil Japan committed in Asia and what the United States did to Japanese Americans.
    - oneshtein 2y ago
      When enemy attacks our civilians — it's a war crime. When enemy civilians die because of our attack — it's just consequence of their foolish resistance. So, enemy commits war crime, while we are not!
  - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
    > "Who's defending Imperial Japan?" When you repeat the justification that the Japanese government used for going to war with the US more or less verbatim without explaining the background, well, that would be you, sir. > "I dislike the wholesale excusing of one sides actions because the other side was worse." That's not a moral or principled stance. That's just whataboutism. > "Given that Imperial Japan was so awful I'm wondering how far you would allow the U.S. to go?" You seem to be looking for an answer to paint me in a bad light and I'm feeling magnanimous today so I'll oblige you: like most Asians other than the Japanese, I see no moral problem with either the atomic bombings or the firebombings of Japanese cities in WW2.
    - JKCalhoun 2y ago
      I am white but I have been told by my (Taiwanese) manager that, "All Asian's hate the Japanese." I know only a little of the history of Japan and its neighbors but he assured me there is a long history of Japan being the aggressor behind this sentiment. I don't feel like I'm trying to paint you in a bad light, rather hoping you'll concede that one side doesn't get a free pass if the other does something atrocious. Perhaps it was my having been raised a Quaker during a formative period of my life, but an eye for an eye is quite the opposite of my philosophy.

usefulcat 2y ago

> First Japan was allied with nazi Germany That's an odd way to critique Imperial Japan, given that the US was allied with the Soviets, under Stalin no less..